HEROIC - Rhyolith - DEFEATED 11/10/11

[Azunai]

I've actually been thinking the same thought. I don't mind wiping if it means progress, but this feels a lot like just throwing ourselves against the boss time and again, hoping for all the RNG pieces to fall into place. I know it's a bit weird to just give up on a boss (and it's not even really giving up, we've killed him once). But last night after Shannox I was feeling pumped. That kill went so smooth I felt we were going to rock the place. Then two or three tries into Ryo I've already lost all of that feeling.

Would it not be a better (or at least better for morale) idea to floor him on normal, go and do other bosses first, where we can actually be in control of our progress and wipes? By the time we get more and better gear, we can compensate better for lack of luck on Ryo, and he'll go down more easily.

[Twyst]

I would have to agree. I started the night on a high - HC Shannox was a very smooth kill. Ryo was a huge let down.
Alysa would have gone down after a few more goes for sure, as that was going very smoothly in comparison.

[TeaLeaf]

Is there a reason we are trying this boss week after week

I've actually been thinking the same thought. I don't mind wiping if it means progress, but this feels a lot like just throwing ourselves against the boss time and again, hoping for all the RNG pieces to fall into place.

I would have to agree. I started the night on a high - HC Shannox was a very smooth kill. Ryo was a huge let down.
Alysa would have gone down after a few more goes for sure, as that was going very smoothly in comparison.

I'll stick my neck out here, so prepare to sharpen your knives against it.

The decision to go to Rhyo was an officer one, but I was pushing for it hard.  I don't do 'skip this boss' very well, I never have, so you can apportion a big chunk of blame at my door because I don't like backing down and I don't believe in RNG.  Call me a stubborn old fool, but heroic raid bosses are the challenge, the fun and the entertainment in raiding and I hate killing a boss on lol-mode when we're a decently-geared heroic raid guild and have already killed this boss on Heroic.  I consider RNG as an indication that we're failing to implement the correct strategy or making personal errors - and by and large I believe this holds true in our raiding.    Due to my raiding history I'm also very used to wiping, analysing and correcting - we seem to regularly manage the first two but fail on the third (as evidenced by some of the ridiculous wipes we had last week).  

I just hate backing down when I know we can do it when we all perform at the same time, to the same high level.
RNG is not what is killing us.  We are the ones killing us.  
Why are we having to blow BR's on people all the time in phase 1?
We have people dying on stuff that should not be damaging them - why?
We're the ones performing poorly - that's not RNG!
We made the enrage timer on the first & third pulls last night, so it's not poor healing.
In the main it was not RNG volcanos that killed us, it was personal errors.

When we killed Heroic Rhyo we pulled 115k rdps.
Last night we averaged 87k rdps.

*that's* what is killing us.  


OTOH, I honestly do see your point of view and it is valid.  Whether we redirect time from this boss to others is something we'll pick up in DMR Council and discuss.  We'll let the raid know what the outcome is on Sunday.

[Azunai]

I'm not blaming you or anything TL, not at all. And I agree with the points on why we are failing - heck I was even guilty to some of em last night. I do want to add that you have to take into account that raid DPS will undeniably go up if his armor stacks go down. Those armor stacks go down if he stomps a volcano. If those volcano's are miles apart, it's going to take longer to drop the stacks and overall dps will be (much) lower. There were a few tries where the RNG of volcano placement was in our favor and we were dropping his HP by plenty. On those tries, we messed up because someone died to something they shouldn't have to. I haven't watched the logs but I'm willing to wager that on quite a few other ones we are lagging behind due to volcano's being miles apart - not only does that reduce the damage he takes, but it also increases damage we receive from the volcano eruptions. Dying half way should not happen and I am not making excuses for that. But whatever way you look at it, volcano's placed miles apart makes the fight a good deal tougher on both healers and DPS, and this is a factor we can't control. A better gearset overall might help us compensate for bad luck though, and with Shannox, Alys and Domo HC all very doable, we have access to quite a few upgrades still.

Regardless, don't take this as me saying I never want to do this fight anymore. Heck I've seen my fair share of raiding and wiping throughout the years as much as you have. I just wish we had some way to make it more reliable, other than to stop dying, is all.

[Twyst]

RNG is not what is killing us.  We are the ones killing us.  
Why are we having to blow BR's on people all the time in phase 1?
We have people dying on stuff that should not be damaging them - why?
We're the ones performing poorly - that's not RNG!
We made the enrage timer on the first & third pulls last night, so it's not poor healing.
In the main it was not RNG volcanos that killed us, it was personal errors.

So if it's personal errors, then we should man up and talk about them.

Whilst tanking the spark, I sometimes go out of range due to the healers moving away from me, or me moving away from the melee (and thus away from healers). That is a personal error.
I also sometimes deliberately cross a lava line to pull the spark out of range/melle camps. Unsure if it's a personal error as such as I can AMS through it (maybe, not checked logs to verify) or self heal enough to make the healing cost to myself outweight the cost to the range/melee camp.
Whilst DPSing the feet, I was popping DPS CD's until told not to. Again, this was a personal error as I should have been aware of this before taking on the role.

As to people dying, we went through the pain of this on raggy and I suspect we'll do the same here seeing as he's our "bogey" boss.
I died as tank 1st once due to being out of range of the healers (see above), so my fault.
All other times I was one of the last to die. So, to the others that died early (and before his stacks got too high causing wipe) - man up and say your piece also.

I'm happy to fight Ryo more - but I think we need more acceptance of mistakes, learn what's killing us and improve.

I'll stick my neck out here, so prepare to sharpen your knives against it.

I'll stick my neck out and say that the officers should have called the move to another boss sooner. The last half of the pulls was basically TL saying more DPS, don't die and you know what you have to do and as it wore on, the tone of his voice kinda told the mood. When this happened, no analysis, no blame, just acceptance, row the dice and go again. Heck, I'd rather end the night on a high and make some good attempts or go back and face roll some T11 (I'm still missing the Al'kir kill btw ) or try more T11 heroic so I am glad that we did change to another boss for a few goes just to mix things up.

[hubbah]

yoyo,

i have read all the comments and i agree to a certain degree. Yes there are a few / alot ( depends on the night ) of personal errors. But that doesnt change the fact that the mechanics of the fight are random..
I asked the question becuase i was wondering if there was a special reason to keep hitting your head on this one, nothing else.
This boss was the one boss i did on normal pre nerf that i hated the most in my raiding time ( it was Twins in AQ40 before.. but this one took the spot ) and now in heroic it just seems more random ( maybe iuts just me ).
I will ofcourse be there for future tries.. i just wonderd.. nothing more

[Slush]

I remember TL saying: "We need you guys on 20k HPS for this fight".
I said... "Sure, then we'll get WoL ranked".

And here here he is:
dMr first ranked player in Firelands.... PUJA!!!!
     http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Firelands/Lord_Rhyolith/10H/Restoration_Shaman/?page=5

Ranked as 171th resto shaman in the world... with a kickass hps of 18.9k!!!

Dude... thats srsly awesomeness! Thanks for carrying me tonite through this fight.

[Arcticfire]

gz on the ranking, but this shows how less Slush pays attention :  44    Dreaman       16-11-11    Shannox    10    Normal    Normal    13864    4 578 939            47.2 %    05:30 171    Dreaman             14-09-11    Beth'tilac    10    Normal    Normal    17845    7 802 867            37.5 %    07:17 114    Jas                    31-07-11    Baleroc    10    Normal    Normal    32223    10 870 533    45.7 %    05:37 120    Moonslash    07-09-11    Baleroc    10    Normal    Normal    32048    10 519 320    42.9 %    05:28

[TeaLeaf]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/38782/rankings/players/

[Slush]

Lol. Damn that whisky :-D
Thx drea! Haahaha

[Twyst]

Heh, even I ranked on the shannox normal kill.
But sadly my ranking on HC chim seems to have been surpassed by others now as it's no longer listed

[Niel]

TBH - in my mind high healing numbers mean people are taking too much damage and we're doing something wrong. It's nice to fill the void between peoples actual and max HP and keep it going to the kill but its definitely a team thing and we certainly seem to cover each others backs well........i don't see it as any kind of good personal performance , more of a "whew....got away with that one again". Last week on Domo i struggled to be in the orb team with TL and kept screwing up because i couldn't resolve the problem of the movement required with the healing required and it is possible to do....just i was crap at it tbh.