3rd raid grp

[Sneakytiger]

thanx for doing that tealeaf saves me.

now a few points i need to make

1: 3rd raid grp will happen.
2: most likely called RGF(raid group fridays)
3: it will be a socail raid grp to start with and then a proper raid grp if it's a success
4: i will be leading, putting the time in, to make sure people are having a happy and productive raid right, and most importantly a fun night.
if any 1 at all has any worrys or concerns plz pass them my way or one of the wow guild admins

thank you, and keep it frosty.

[Davemk]

The current structure does allow the chance for new people to raid, but it does not mean that everyone will get a chance to raid immediately they re-activate their account.   There are other considerations, like for example when you noted your wish to raid on a mage both raid groups already had two mages in each of them!

I don't seem to remember anywhere that I have said that I expect to get straight back into raiding and quite offended that you decided to take my comment that way!  However, I don't think it's unfair to expect a fair chance at it.  You also mention the time in which I registered my interest, had I realised that it was a first-come, first-served basis I would of posted a lot sooner.  However, as it said something along the lines of 'register your interest and we'll get it sorted once we know who's interested', this implies that it shouldn't matter when you actually make your post.

As some people here know, I am very aware of what it takes to get raids going (being part of many top raid groups in the past) and don't expect things to be sorted at the last minute.  However, there is no way that people can predict what is going to happen once the expansion actually hits.  I doubt this is going to happen but, you could get half the raid force decide to quit after playing the expansion for a few months because there are changes and stuff that make things undesirable, which would then make a lot of the planning pointless because you'll have to fill all those spots again.

Anyway, I just wanted to make my point and hope that someone actually gets my point.  I'm probably not going to get MoP until the end of the month due to funds but once I do, I will probably give the 3rd raid group a chance if possible and see what happens.

[TeaLeaf]

I think the main issue here is one of 'quart into a pint pot'.   We'll try to provide raid places as natural turnover (people retiring, changing jobs etc) & demand (e.g. a third raid group) allows, but we can't remove existing raiders to artificially create that opportunity.   In that sense there is an element of first-come first-served as the ones already doing it get the first chance to maintain their raid spot.   Anything else would be unfair.

The main way a third raid group will happen is if sufficient people log on, gear appropriately in heroics and then push hard each week to form a group, pugging to fill gaps, adding additional members organically and then recruiting to fill the final few spots to solidify the group.  So it takes a good few months of commitment from people to make the group a long-term success.

[Davemk]

I think the main issue here is one of 'quart into a pint pot'.   We'll try to provide raid places as natural turnover (people retiring, changing jobs etc) & demand (e.g. a third raid group) allows, but we can't remove existing raiders to artificially create that opportunity.   In that sense there is an element of first-come first-served as the ones already doing it get the first chance to maintain their raid spot.   Anything else would be unfair.

No, the point here is trying to be fair to everyone and not just those that are currently raiding.  I'm not suggesting that people get kicked out just to make spots available, but surely it's fair that everyone has a chance?  If it's a first-come first-served basis then say that!  Don't give people the option to register their interest when it's just going to basically be the same people again. It would of been easier to say "Current raiders; let us know if you're not planning on raiding and we'll fill your spots".  At least then people know that it's going to be the same people again and not get their hopes up.
At the end of the day, i've tried to make a point and it's been missed/ignored and some of my other points have been glossed over as well.  There's just no point me replying any more as the point will just keep getting missed and no one will address the fact that there might actually be a point to what i'm saying.  I'm not saying that people should be kicked out of the group, i'm trying to advocate a bit of fairness in how it was done.  But hey, i'm just someone that's been out of the game for a few months so obviously my opinion doesn't matter!!

[TeaLeaf]

It would of been easier to say "Current raiders; let us know if you're not planning on raiding and we'll fill your spots".  At least then people know that it's going to be the same people again and not get their hopes up.

Dave, what you are suggesting was precisely what we did.

With the Mists of Pandaria expansion due later this year the DMR Council wanted to outline some initial plans for RGT raiding in MoP and to find out from RGT members what their own plans are for raiding in MoP.

Can all RGT members please post in this thread if they intend to:

The same post went out for RGW members, so you're criticising us for doing what you say we should have done!

I'm sorry to see that you continue to believe we did something that was unfair, but I'm really not sure what we are meant to have done. I think you're probably getting unnecessarily frustrated because you misread the original post.

I spent quite a long time writing what I thought was a complete answer in reply to the points you raised, but if I am missing something specific then let me know and I promise I will do my best to answer it.    Likewise though I suggest you go and re-read the posts we made on 19th April as they were addressed, as you suggested to existing raid members, so you were not misled or given false hope when you posted your interest in MoP raiding some 4 months later.

[Davemk]

I don't seem to remember anywhere that I have said that I expect to get straight back into raiding and quite offended that you decided to take my comment that way!

Well, my last and only post now on this is about this quote.  It seems to me that it's fine for you to make an assumption about what i'm actually saying but then not apologise once I point out that you've made a very incorrect assumption but hey, I guess that must of been missed in the walls of text that don't actually address my point: Where is the fairness to the entire guild/additional people that would like a chance to raid?

But don't worry about it, not expecting anything else now and my part in this thread is well and truly done.

Enjoy MoP folks and all the best.

[TeaLeaf]

I think I might try and start raiding again in MoP and will be looking to use my mage as main.

What else are we meant to assume Dave when you post that you want to start raiding again in a thread for RGW raiders and tell us which toon you want to use?  Should we assume it means "we can ignore him, he doesn't mean now"?  If you want an apology then I apologise for that single small element which I got wrong.   I'll wait to see if you now apologise for not reading the OP properly.

[Davemk]

You know what, it seems I did misread the original post slightly so I apologise for that but as far as I'm concerned, that doesn't change the point I was trying to make.

With regards to the quote you have posted, where exactly does it say there that I re-activate my account and expect a raid spot straight away?  Pretty sure I said "Might try and start raiding in MoP".  I'm confused where in that sentence I state that I expect a raid spot immediately?  This is my point, you've twisted what I said to make a point and make me seem like i'm only doing this because I want an immediate raid spot.  Let's also take into account the fact that, after the fist sentence which is obviously me (in a roundabout way) stating that I would be up for giving the social raid group a go, everything is about everyone and not just myself.  So again, I also think that the personal digs at my situation weren't called for, especially when they were totally misread in the first place.

[TeaLeaf]

Dave, I think you're being deliberately obtuse here, I never said it was you, I was giving examples to support the generic process.   But let's be more constructive, how about you set out the way you feel it should have been handled please.

[Davemk]

Dave, I think you're being deliberately obtuse here, I never said it was you, I was giving examples to support the generic process.   But let's be more constructive, how about you set out the way you feel it should have been handled please.

No I don't believe I am.  Who else exactly would you be referring to when you are replying to my post and you're bringing up my exact situation?  Either way, don't give a **** anymore.  I'm done with this thread.
Cheers
Dave

[Milli]

Dave - I've sat back and read the posts and not said anything.  You being a "insert not so nice word here" about things.  
You are kicking off at things for no reason, your posts have been answered and you are still not happy - you still try to nit-pick about those answers

But I think you are being completely out of order with the dis-respect you are showing the guys who put in so much work for the guild and especially behind the scenes.
Prime example is the language you choose to use in this community forum.

[Penfold]

I'm done with this thread.

Well that seems to be a good place to leave it and to calm.

I'm closing this thread and kindly request all to step back, take a seat in the grass and look at the pixies for a while.

[Bellanie]

Pixies woot!!!!!!!!!