GPU Upgrade

[Gorion]

Textures use vram, the higher the quality, the more vram required.

A lot more than 4MB

[ReddFour]

With 1080p you don't get any benefit from the 4MB vram.  Afaiaa it is only when you start gaming at higher resolutions such as 2560x1440+ that the extra vram shows any benefit.  So choose a card but don't be hooked up on 4MB!

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I don't agree with that though. I have read reports and witnessed myself that Arma 3 requires more than 2Gb VRAM at 1080p. I've also read reports of games like Watchdogs running a lot better at 1080p with 4Gb cards rather than 2Gb cards due to the amount of VRAM they need. So it just isn't true these days that 2Gb is enough at 1080p.

Here is just one example (the Watchdogs one). It's in German but the second graph alone of the EVGA GTX 960 2Gb vs 4Gb shows just how much 4Gb makes a difference.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Geforce-GTX-960-Grafikkarte-259742/Tests/4-GB-Test-Vorteile-Benchmarks-1154370/

[TeaLeaf]

There are a small number of games with very high texture loads or who offer a hyper-quality texture download pack.  The reviews I read when buying my GPUs last year all concluded that 4MB was really only needed at higher resolutions than 1080p.  I'm happy to be corrected if something radical has changed in the last 12 months, but that's not what I read.  Granted, if you happen to play one of the exceptions then maybe 4MB is for you, but they are in the minority.  The vast majority of the games that are played are either cpu-bound or do not have excessively high texture loads, neither if which would require 4MB.

A quick check of the frame rates of different games with different cards should tell you what you need to know and as far as I can tell there are a large number of gfx cards with less than 4MB that hit high frame rates.

Here's an example of the type of article I was reading.
http://alienbabeltech.com/main/gtx-770-4gb-vs-2gb-tested

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[ReddFour]

My feeling is that the number of those "exceptions" will climb quite quickly especially ports from PS4/XB1 games. I wouldn't be at all surprised if GTA V works better with 4Gb cards at 1080p and the same for the Witcher 3 among others. Of course until they come out that is just opinion.

[albert]

In play Warframe and I recently bought a 980. At 2560x1440 even that game which is 3 years old reaches max capacity of the 980. So I think even older games can benefit from the extra RAM especially since new effects and shaders/ textures keep getting created and added to spice up old classics. HL2 looks great since the community updates but will chew up my 980 when everything is maxed. I see the odd 45fps when playing it. Given CS:GO gets over 200!

[TeaLeaf]

In play Warframe and I recently bought a 980. At 2560x1440 even that game which is 3 years old reaches max capacity of the 980. So I think even older games can benefit from the extra RAM especially since new effects and shaders/ textures keep getting created and added to spice up old classics. HL2 looks great since the community updates but will chew up my 980 when everything is maxed. I see the odd 45fps when playing it. Given CS:GO gets over 200!

The key part of that statement is the 2560x1440 bit.  It's a 78% increase in the number of pixels to play with compared to 1920x1080, which is what I was saying: 'at higher than 1080p resolutions you start seeing the benefits of additional vram'.  I play at 2560x1600 and wanted 4MB cards, unfortunately there wasn't the supply of 4MB GTX770's when I built my rig, so I ended up with 2 x GTX770 2MB in SLI which seems to cope well enough (probably because of the SLI, not because of the 2MB)!    I will however be upgrading to 4MB+ graphics cards next year, when a certain high texture load space sim goes live, so I'd agree with Redd that there will be an increasing number of games offering this potential, but it will still be those at higher resolutions who need the 4MB first.  By the time it becomes a requirement for all games at 1080p I suspect it will be time to upgrade the graphics card yet again.

[ReddFour]

I did a test last night and every game I owned I could get to want more than 2gb by upping the quality. If you are happy with lower quality then fair enough but I want the very best a game can offer.

If I wanted less than that I'd be playing on a game console for the convenience

[TeaLeaf]

If I wanted less than that I'd be playing on a game console for the convenience

If you wanted more you'd be playing on a PS4 with its 8GB 'unified'

I did a test last night and every game I owned I could get to want more than 2gb by upping the quality. If you are happy with lower quality then fair enough but I want the very best a game can offer.

I'm not arguing that some games (and an increasing number of new games) need more than 2GB, but to say that 'all games you own need more than 2GB' is a little extreme (unless you are only listing specific carefully chosen games).  As an example, at 1080p on max:

TF2 1.37GB
Quake Live 0.9GB
Diablo 0.9GB
Star Craft II 1.25GB
Crysis 3 2.73GB
Assassins Creed IV 2.02GB
Far Cry 4 2.71GB
Star Citizen (pre-Alpha) 3.04GB
World of Tanks 1.4GB
Counter-strike 1.1GB
FSX 1.3GB

Redd, earlier in the thread I recommended a 4GB card (the 290) so I am not a ignoring the 4GB option.  I'm just saying don't let it be the rule, it's a consideration that is less relevant at lower resolutions than at higher resolutions and dependent upon an individuals needs and intended use.  Of course, if all you want to do is play Mordor, then you'll need an 8GB vram graphics card!

Edit: I'm off to buy a couple of 32GB vram nVidia Pascal graphics cards! (hopefully it will come out in time for Star Citizen's PU launch)

[TeaLeaf]

[albert]

Warframe uses 3.5GB of vram at 1080p. Its strains the CPU and North Bridge more than the gfx card though! The main recommended fix is to turn off CPU parking:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/289244-framerate-drops-high-cpu-loads-cpu-overheating-this-might-fix-it-cpu-core-unparking/

[TeaLeaf]

Warframe uses 3.5GB of vram at 1080p. [/url]

I'm seeing less vram usage at 2560x1600 than you are at 1920x1080, so I have no clue what is happening here!

[albert]

I'm seeing less vram usage at 2560x1600 than you are at 1920x1080, so I have no clue what is happening here!

A bug or lack of proper optimisation after U15. It also depends on the game but there are regularly 40+ fully rendered fps quality enemies on the screen, magic effects, over a dozen animations per object and then environmental effects in Warframe. It's a proper groundbreaker and constant work in progress that releases 3-4 times a week and does a major upgrade at least once a month. In Beta. With the new 4v4 capture the cube and 8 man raid series it's becoming even better. All run from a host machine out of the players in game.

[Gorion]

Warframe uses 3.5GB of vram at 1080p. Its strains the CPU and North Bridge more than the gfx card though! The main recommended fix is to turn off CPU parking:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/289244-framerate-drops-high-cpu-loads-cpu-overheating-this-might-fix-it-cpu-core-unparking/

Are you sure it's vram, and not ddram?

I played warframe on 1080p at ultra, yet I have 2GB vram per card. 690 is a dual slot.

Core unparking gives slight benefits in cpu intensive games, so it shouldn't be vram.


As for 2vs4GB, again textures use vram too.  Some games already use it now, expect to have exponential growth in games requiring them too.  Plus, it helps since PC games are usually unoptimised console ports.  And finally, remember not to believe Nvidia marketing, I doubt we'll be seeing 32GB vram anytime soon, even by using stacked ram; here's hoping though.

[ReddFour]

Early reports of GTA V requiring over 3gb VRam at 1080p.

[TeaLeaf]

I can't comment from personal experience as I haven't yet bought GTA V, but only a couple of days ago Rockstar said:

Yesterday Rcokstar releases the system requirements if you plan to play with your PC on Ultra HD. Now we assume that if you already have an Ultra HD monitor, the rest of the PC selection will be fine as well

According to Rockstar, the recommended specifications are based on hardware that can run the game at 1080p, at 60 frames-per-second. For that, Rockstar suggest a Nvidia GTX 660 2GB or AMD HD7870 2GB.

"To run the game on a 4K display at 30fps," says Hoare, "you’ll need at minimum an AMD HD 7870 or Nvidia GTX 760 with 2GB of VRAM." As for the 4K at 60 frames-per-second, that'll require a "high-end SLI or Crossfire setup."

Oh snap, I better upgrade my VGA then !

Kevin Hoare said:

We based our recommended spec on hardware that we knew could comfortably achieve 1080P resolution at 60fps.

Recommended specifications:
OS: Windows 8.1 64 Bit, Windows 8 64 Bit, Windows 7 64 Bit Service Pack 1
Processor: Intel Core i5 3470 @ 3.2GHZ (4 CPUs) / AMD X8 FX-8350 @ 4GHZ (8 CPUs)
Memory: 8GB
Video Card: NVIDIA GTX 660 2GB / AMD HD7870 2GB
Sound Card: 100% DirectX 10 compatible
HDD Space: 65GB
DVD Drive

I guess it depends on your system but also the large pinch of salt we should always take with developer recommendations!   If they say 2GB we probably ought to be aiming for more and it certainly won't hurt!