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Map changing

Started by OldBloke, May 23, 2003, 09:26:46 AM

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OldBloke

Chaps,

You've probably guessed that I was less than pleased when the map was changed last night from militia to train. The reason given was that several players had requested it. I only remember two/three people (Sadako and Albert were two) bemoaning militia and asking for train. It's my understanding that admins should only change the map if the number of players is too large/small for the map or if the majority call for it. Two out of at least twelve aint no majority. It's a fact that different people like different maps. It's also a fact that a lot of time is spent tweaking the rotation. If a map comes up that you don't like then tough - it was a democratic process that put it there.

Rant over.

Now all trot off to CS Central and checkout their new mappack.

http://www.cscentral.com/maps/mappacks/cscmappack2/
"War without end. Well, what was history if not that? And how would having the stars change anything?" - James S. A. Corey

Dr Sadako

Well actually it was the entire CT team that discussed it when dead over voice comms. So you should add 4-5 more to the 2 you had. On the T side there were 1 or 2 as I recall it that agreed. So 7-9 out of 13 agreed. The problem I felt last night as CT was that some actually considered leaving because of the map. In that case I think we should got to the next map instead of losing players just cause we are sticking to the rotation.

I think we need to look over the rotation. The last months we have had a full server almost every night and some of the maps aren't well suited for that. I think that we should have a new map testing asap. I also think that we should, altough we have been very democratic before, pull some of the maps without further ado and also add some other standard maps to compensate. We need maps that are PCS playable on the rotation and not just that ppl like them. If it was just down to that some ppl like the map we would have fy_poolday in the rotation in no time and it has even been suggested if I recall right.

Maps that are causing some trouble:

de_mog - nice looking map BUT Ts can (and do) rush the right site repeatedly and we know that the map has become very repeating in play. The left approach is way to easy to cover for CT which leads to right side rushes from T. This is not good gameplay or PCS imo.

cs_thunder - Is ok with fewer ppl on the server but when it comes up (usually late at night) I have been asked multiple times to go to the next or another map. The map is very static as you only need to cover 3 entrances as T. There is limited possibilities to varied/surprising attacks. Then we have the ever occuring WAD issue on this map that leads to some ppl dropping and usually not returning.

cs_militia - works also better with teams that are 5 vs 5. 8 vs 8 is a real pain for CT. I think it is too biased and there are other standard maps that are better than this one. Multiple Ts camping the garage have made the map even harder lately.

de_survivor and de_nuke (or winternuke) are better standard maps both PCS wise and to cope with large teams. And nuke is a match map that pops up now and then.

My five,
-=[dMw]=-Dr "Doc" Sadako

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love." Albert Einstein

OldBloke

QuoteWell actually it was the entire CT team that discussed it when dead over voice comms. So you should add 4-5 more to the 2 you had. On the T side there were 1 or 2 as I recall it that agreed. So 7-9 out of 13 agreed.

So the team not favoured by the bias gets to decide when to change? That's new.


QuoteThe problem I felt last night as CT was that some actually considered leaving because of the map. In that case I think we should got to the next map instead of losing players just cause we are sticking to the rotation.

In which case call a vote. Before I left I asked why the map was changed. Most of my team had no idea.

QuoteI think we need to look over the rotation. The last months we have had a full server almost every night and some of the maps aren't well suited for that. I think that we should have a new map testing asap. I also think that we should, altough we have been very democratic before, pull some of the maps without further ado and also add some other standard maps to compensate. We need maps that are PCS playable on the rotation and not just that ppl like them.

I couldn't agree more. Well said.

QuoteIf it was just down to that some ppl like the map we would have fy_poolday in the rotation in no time and it has even been suggested if I recall right.

Over my dead body  8O

QuoteMaps that are causing some trouble:

de_mog - nice looking map BUT Ts can (and do) rush the right site repeatedly and we know that the map has become very repeating in play. The left approach is way to easy to cover for CT which leads to right side rushes from T. This is not good gameplay or PCS imo.

cs_thunder - Is ok with fewer ppl on the server but when it comes up (usually late at night) I have been asked multiple times to go to the next or another map. The map is very static as you only need to cover 3 entrances as T. There is limited possibilities to varied/surprising attacks. Then we have the ever occuring WAD issue on this map that leads to some ppl dropping and usually not returning.

cs_militia - works also better with teams that are 5 vs 5. 8 vs 8 is a real pain for CT. I think it is too biased and there are other standard maps that are better than this one. Multiple Ts camping the garage have made the map even harder lately.

de_survivor and de_nuke (or winternuke) are better standard maps both PCS wise and to cope with large teams. And nuke is a match map that pops up now and then.

My five,

I agree in the main but I do tend to regard militia as a challenge as CT and not a pain. I much prefer to play these challenging maps like siege, militia, assault as CT as a round won is such a reward (strange aint I?).

I'm beginning to wonder then if the way we currently select maps needs to change then. A week of playtesting followed by a vote has ultimately produced some turkeys.

Thoughts?
"War without end. Well, what was history if not that? And how would having the stars change anything?" - James S. A. Corey

Dr Sadako

Quote
QuoteWell actually it was the entire CT team that discussed it when dead over voice comms. So you should add 4-5 more to the 2 you had. On the T side there were 1 or 2 as I recall it that agreed. So 7-9 out of 13 agreed.

So the team not favoured by the bias gets to decide when to change? That's new.
[/b]

Ok. It was a bad call from TL and me. Sorry about that.

Quote
QuoteThe problem I felt last night as CT was that some actually considered leaving because of the map. In that case I think we should got to the next map instead of losing players just cause we are sticking to the rotation.

In which case call a vote. Before I left I asked why the map was changed. Most of my team had no idea.
[/b]

 8O  Can you actually still do that? I thought that plugin was removed.  :?  Hmm ... please distribute the command.


Quote
QuoteIf it was just down to that some ppl like the map we would have fy_poolday in the rotation in no time and it has even been suggested if I recall right.

Over my dead body  8O [/b]

 :D I agree with you. I just wanted to show what the extreme could be.


Quote
I agree in the main but I do tend to regard militia as a challenge as CT and not a pain. I much prefer to play these challenging maps like siege, militia, assault as CT as a round won is such a reward (strange aint I?).

... and that is why you were T last night huh. ;)

I know what you are aiming at. What I have observed the last few months are that if the Ts on a T biased map (e.g. militia, italy or CT on mog) plays very good defence even when balancing the teams in CT favour sometimes won't help. A few weeks ago we had 10 CTs vs 6 Ts on militia for several rounds and Ts never lost a round. That includes CTs with AWPs and multiple attack approaches. I was really glad that the map changed before we got to 11-5 or 12-4 on the teams. I think one of the reasons this happens is that our regulars have become better at PCS and voice comms. This is not a bad thing but when a map comes down to guarding choke points or who rushes fastest to a point  to win the map, we should look over the selection one more time. I am ok with militia being in the rotation but I still think mog and thunder should be removed.

Quote
I'm beginning to wonder then if the way we currently select maps needs to change then. A week of playtesting followed by a vote has ultimately produced some turkeys.
Thoughts?

I agree. One of the reasons imo is that we had a democratic vote of which maps to put in and remove. I think many voted on the maps without having in mind if it was PCS or not.

Should try to have a private dMw testing first?
-=[dMw]=-Dr "Doc" Sadako

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love." Albert Einstein

Stryker

take away the challenging maps and we may as well go the whole hog and only play one map.... big square courtyard with no objects or items.
-=[dMw]=-Stryker

smite

Quotetake away the challenging maps and we may as well go the whole hog and only play one map.... big square courtyard with no objects or items.

I can make that :D  :D


LET THE MAP ROTATION RUN LEAVE IT ALONE.
IF you are losing get better its as simple as that..even the sides dont just change maps coz u dont like it or it isnt working.
We pick the maps let them run.
If you dont like a map leave.
There are quite a few i dont like and that im not good at but i either stick with it or leave and come back later but leave the rotation to run.
If you mess with the rotation it doesnt go onto the next one in line.

There will be exceptional circumstances eg:- 1v1 on a huge map.
This is my oppinion only.

Dr Sadako

Quote
Quotetake away the challenging maps and we may as well go the whole hog and only play one map.... big square courtyard with no objects or items.

I can make that :D  :D


LET THE MAP ROTATION RUN LEAVE IT ALONE.
IF you are losing get better its as simple as that..even the sides dont just change maps coz u dont like it or it isnt working.
We pick the maps let them run.
If you dont like a map leave.
There are quite a few i dont like and that im not good at but i either stick with it or leave and come back later but leave the rotation to run.
If you mess with the rotation it doesnt go onto the next one in line.

There will be exceptional circumstances eg:- 1v1 on a huge map.
This is my oppinion only.[/b]

Bring on fy_poolday, iceworld, awp map ...  :twisted: ;)
-=[dMw]=-Dr "Doc" Sadako

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love." Albert Einstein

TeaLeaf

:oops:  err, what can I say?  :oops:

I changed the map because I thought everyone was having a bitch about that specific map.  For reasons that are unimportant here, my attention was somewhat diverted and I made the incorrect assumption that the whole group wanted a map change.  I thought I was keeping everyone happy - I hadn't spotted that not all were involved in the conversation.  My bad......... :(   I do not make a habit of changing maps, so please accept my apologies if it upset or annoyed anyone.  

/me wanders over to the corner with a birch branch and starts beating myself   8O

TL.  8)
TL.
Wisdom doesn\'t necessarily come with age. Sometimes age just shows up all by itself.  (Tom Wilson)
Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships. (Michael Jordan)

OldBloke

Quote ... /me wanders over to the corner with a birch branch and starts beating myself  8O

TL. 8)

Forget that. Go get the mappack  8)
"War without end. Well, what was history if not that? And how would having the stars change anything?" - James S. A. Corey