DKP System

[Luthor]

Were making points here, and what?
 
People seem to think of this as a joke?
 
Menedil left the guild, for what reason i can only guess, but i sure think this issue was one of his concerns.
 
Yes were supposed to have a good time, but how can you have it in a moment of grief. At least i think he was one of the best contributions to Silver Oak Guardians.
 
We have amased huge amounts of DKP... more anyone could ever spend. because they will earn more!
 
If we split the pools, there can still be made loot rules, to prevent new people. FX: grapping Tier 3 before Gorion. the rule could be easy, untill you paid for (maybe 4 parts?, since 8 parts could take forever) tier 2 loot, your last in queue.
 
But when the person this new person attends to every of these damn raids, he will eventually amass DKP as fast as anyone else, he just arent eligible for loot YET. But when he reach the amount of T2 items. he can start getting stuff before some of the elder members. but hey IMO that is 100% fair, he after all got DKP enough. this way people will hit minus DKP, yes but only for a short time. because there are not only 1 new member, the one that just got loot, will just be behind in the queue. rather Fair IMO, but the new guy with no T2 FX, will still be last in queue.
 
Luthor!

[Bastet]

Djezus luthor chill, its still under discussion (as said above), and since its a delicate subject it might be for a while.
 
Instead of beeing so rude about ramming this through how about you put up a constructed critism or a nice alternative for the system?

[TeaLeaf]

Lets just do FFA and fastest finger, should be alright.

/signed :laugh:

TL.

[TeaLeaf]

Djezus luthor chill, its still under discussion (as said above), and since its a delicate subject it might be for a while.

And in addition this is not a thread about Menedil's departure.  But we do continue to discuss and look for a better way forward.  It's not exactly black & white.

TL.

[Gorion]

if you plan your dkp wisely, you will not have a problem. plan for the future, take only the items you plan to use for a long time. (if you need help in doing that send me a /w)

sure new ppl might think its unfair, but wouldnt the zero system be more unfair to the other members who devoted circa 1 year for the raid progress of the guild? (remember that without the devotion of the older members, we wouldnt be doing bwl nor aq nor will be starting naxx and niether having 2 raidgroups)

thats my 2c

[Luthor]

My oh my... read the first lines.., and reply? is that how it works. i actually put up a system. i actually offered my help, to move data from one databse to another in a past reply.
 
If we split the pools, there can still be made loot rules, to prevent new people. FX: grapping Tier 3 before Gorion. the rule could be easy, untill you paid for (maybe 4 parts?, since 8 parts could take forever) tier 2 loot, your last in queue.

Quote from self: "But when the person this new person attends to every of these damn raids, he will eventually amass DKP as fast as anyone else, he just arent eligible for loot YET. But when he reach the amount of T2 items. he can start getting stuff before some of the elder members. but hey IMO that is 100% fair, he after all got DKP enough. this way people will hit minus DKP, yes but only for a short time. because there are not only 1 new member, the one that just got loot, will just be behind in the queue. rather Fair IMO, but the new guy with no T2 FX, will still be last in queue."

 
But okey, if you wanna read what you wanna read. i can never convince you otherwise.
 
Luthor.

[Padding]

One persons comment is never a comment for a larger group, so people commenting should only be taken for comments from themselves
 
On a general note, i have to say that the DKP system is still being debated, but if we are changing it its not gonna be an easy decision, so it needs to be debated thorougly
 
I can however say that im listening to what all people are saying, and that also have an effect on my opinions

[Bastet]

Luthor's system might have some drawbacks, ppl that are unable to bid are able to build up dkp, it might take a long while and eventualy they will be as far above me as i am above them now, with the differance they are last to join, where i put my heart and soul in this guild for more then a year. Could work, could **** a ton of ppl off.

[Luthor]

But, have they not earned it? after all its only inside this particular instance, and so, they have earned there DKP inside there. just not able to purchase stuff for it.

[Marduk]

I didnt follow the entire discussion, but ppl seem to forget how complex dkp is. And if the officers mess this discussion up theres a risk that a lot of ppl will leave.
 
We now use a simple, easy system that has one flaw, namely that ppl gain more dkp then they can possibly spend. This means that new players cannot catch up on dkp, or those who could not always attend due to several reasons.
 
Now using the link earlyer in this post i took a quick peak and found several systems that all have thier own unique flaws.
 
Bid system sounds nice, but ppl can make agreements not to bid much on class items so they have a high pool for rings etc. Also the cowtrade during raids takes far longer then just checking who is highest. Nice, but i want to raid, not attend a slow moving auction. I dont fancy adding up an hour to our raid due to loot or posibly not beeing able to do a MC/BWL run in one night anymore
 
Zero sum, as kreuz sugested looks nice, theres no inflation, but what if there is a new lad joining and he needs all his MC gear? He will be the only one buying items and thus will dig a big hole for himselfs. This might be worse then starting at 0 dkp in the current system.
 
Now, one of the solutions i see is a split system for each instance, providing the attendance will be met, which historicly looking for RG1 hasnt been a strong side of us, ppl tend not to care for certain fights, and now at least DKP gives some reason to go.
 
In short, i dont see a better system, but if ppl want a change splitting the systems per instance might be the best option. For this will get rid of the problem of rewarding people in AQ40 and naxx for something they did over a year ago in molten core.
 
I will take myself as an example i think i have contributed a fair amount to rg1 over the last couple of months but my beginning has been rather weak due to real life health issues keeping me away from raiding or forcing me to log off early
Now i find it only fair that those who have attended all those raids i have missed to get priority to loot in mc and maybe even in bwl
But for naxx and aq40 i will do just as much as every other member but i will have to wait for them to get the loot first, that i do find unfair
People who have joined the guild later will have the same problem
 
And to further spice up the debate here is a different idea
 
Perhaps we could just shave some DKP off the top getting everybody closer together
Say a small percentage of removed dkp every week off the top
For those at the bottem it will be very little dkp, but those at the top will have a lot removed in figures getting people closer together but still keeping attendance in mind

[Bastet]

@ luthor, yes they earned up, but beeing 2nd in line after some1 w/ a lot of dkp is not fun, spes when killing new bosses, and it wont help that the person above you is a relative new guild members. (hard to word what i want to say)
 
@ marduk, most excelent post, some great ideas in there :clap:

[Luminance]

edit

Say a small percentage of removed dkp every week off the top
 For those at the bottem it will be very little dkp, but those at the top will have a lot removed in figures getting people closer together but still keeping attendance in mind

(didn't saw marduk posted similar idea so edited it)

I've seen some systems work with -% at the end of the month too, and it looks litle more fair then the current one. So have to agree with this idea of marduk.
 
 gr Lumi

[Bob]

Perhaps we could just shave some DKP off the top getting everybody closer together
Say a small percentage of removed dkp every week off the top
For those at the bottem it will be very little dkp, but those at the top will have a lot removed in figures getting people closer together but still keeping attendance in mind

Just wanted to comment on this as well:

I've read that this is something than can be added to various of DKP systems, and the result of it is actually not too bad.  By for instance multiplying everybody's DKP with 0.7 (or some other number between 0 and 1), you'll end up with a relative decrease in everybody's DKP.  The ones on top will still be on top, and the ones on the bottom will still be last, but the gap between 'em will get smaller, which ain't a bad thing.
This could be done once every 2nd week, once a month, or just every now and than - whatere makes sence :smile:

[Voretex]

Now, one of the solutions i see is a split system for each instance, providing the attendance will be met, which historicly looking for RG1 hasnt been a strong side of us, ppl tend not to care for certain fights, and now at least DKP gives some reason to go.
 

 

amen. thats all it needs