Leaving

Luminance · October 23, 2006, 01:13:40 PM

Dear Keisuke (and other people that wanna leave/will leave in the future cuz of loot) i'm sorry to hear that your leaving, but i think its lame, selfish and most off all foolish of you (all).

First of all, if someone has more dkp then you, that means he was there longer then you, he/she probly wiped more, spend lots of more time, and spend a fortune on repairs, wich you don't have to do anymore to start at the same point sog is now. So your lucky that u don't have to spend all that time/frustration/gold anymore. So imo it makes sence they get prio, they did more to the raid your in now.

Second, we sog have a seperate dkp totals for diffirent instances, and you do know that blizzard makes new instances and new loot all the time. So if ur really lower on bwl and a little behind aq dkp, you'll be almost equal on naxxramas (they haven't done that so much, so they haven't earned much dkp, so its logical you'll get as much rights to get good loot), and equal (ignoreing ur attendance to make it easier) to new instances so you get better loot there anyways, just takes time.

Seems logical to me that its most fair that the once last in line gets lowest prio (exceptions can be made ofc)

So patience is one key and logic and common sence is an other.

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Now to make a comment on that bidding system. This system is even worse then we use. example 1 (disregarding the time loss):

rogue A wants dagger 1
rogue B with lower dkp wants dagger 1
rogue C with lowest dkp (and with dream) wants dagger 1

rogue A bids 50, rogue B bids 55 rogue c 60 then this goes on till rogue c bids a really large amounth of dkp and A and B passes.

Then this rogue has its dream item but has no dkp, so he looses all chances on other items that might improve himself alot more, and with that weakens the raid a little.

few weeks later dagger2 drops rogue B thinks its not that good and won't bid so high, so A wins. then couple weeks later dagger 1 drops, and C has it, A doesn't want it since he has good dagger allready and wants to save for a ring 1, so rogue B gets it for a "bargin".
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example 2:

rogue A, B & C have tier 2, but since rogue B has to leave wow cuz of irl problems, they have to find a new rogue, rogue D. Since A & C have full tier 2 there won't be a battle over tier 2 pieces so rogue D will get it for a "baring"

then this means rogue D has less dkp spend for the same tier 2 so he has more dkp left for rings/trinkets/cloak etc.

Now if there is a hunter C wich is in guild longer then D but has less dkp since he had to "bid" higher dkp on his tier 2, then rogue D has more chance on getting it since C will need it to bid on hunter wapons or so againt other hunters.

imo that aint fair since he has done more for the guild then the new joined rogue D

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at Marduk yes its improving the raid, but is it as fair against the other who has been in the raid for ages? and giving good gear to new joineds can atract loot whores, since they see their own bad ring, and a guild who hands out good rings to the people with bad rings

so in a perfect world it would have been a really good idea, but since there are always rotten players, you better not do it, cuz whats the point of giving good epics to greedy people who leave guild over an other item, i gradder see those items go to loyal players who are and will stay in raid/guild for a long time.

just ma 2 cents

i thank you for your time, best luck in other guild, hope you'll be more happy there, but i think thats not gonna happen since lots of guilds are far worse in distibuting epix.

Umbra · October 23, 2006, 01:37:41 PM

1) having a clean loot channel would be nice, it might work in raid chat but it's too easy to miss it, and yes it would help GREATLY if people could see who else wants an item.

2) even if you do know who else wants it sometimes you think it's your turn, f.ex. I had passed on that sword >3 times for a rogue, so I thought it's my turn to have an upgrade. but really if you look at the dkp of the people who get the items it's be cause of 2 things
a) it's not just a number, it means they have worked their a$$es off in there, so they have earned it, I've said this before. You may think your class should get it, but if someone else has far greater dkp then they have earned it, if they pass it to a rogue or 2 then it's because they are being kind, this does not mean they should be expected to continue doing so.
b) they are careful about where they spend their dkp, bastet hasn't had a wep upgrade for *ages* and yet has been to about 100% of raids?

Don't begrudge someone something when they have spent more time and more care of their dkp.

Kei, you're not a bad bloke you shouldn't let this get to you, how would you have felt if you had continued to raid and in 6 months time a relatively new member came in and was given the CTS? that's how it would be if you got it when some of the older people wanted it. Seriously , no disrespect or meanness intended but why do you think you deserve it more than a rogue who has spent far far more time and money and effort in the raids? Maybe it was a nasty shock because each time it seems you have a chance at it some veteran seems to decide to take it on a whim like a nasty joke? I can assure you it's not like that at all. You have to keep raiding, keep waiting, earning those points. You would probably have got it in the next few weeks anyway, either that or TBC would give you something lovely anyway. the only thing leaving would so is try and make a statement, but the only statement it makes isn't positive.

RG1 is a team, you shouldn't think of things like 'i need it more' or 'they should pass to me'

Taking the dagger was a bad move tho, not only does it use your dkp, it says to everyone else in the raid 'I wanted this' and implies you don't really want the sword too much.

*hugs* to you tho really, I've always been low on warr dkp since I party too much so usually I have to bribe dajo and gorion with pimped girls, and opti with pimped boys to get something before them, and sometimes it seems silly if a warr had like 5 swords when I still only had 1 good one (DualWield) but as long as they will be using it it's all good. Patience is a virtue, c'mon,, kiss and make up

noevra · October 23, 2006, 01:58:24 PM

why do we have this discusion on a weekly basis now?

the rules are fine as they are. You either save up your dkp for the items you realy want (like some one ever gets more dkp then bastet).
ore you just dont set up your mind for a item.

(think of it. why sould some one that DID save up his dkp pass a item he probely realy wants for you? the one in this time with less dkp. WOULD YOU PASS A ITEM YOU REALY WANTED AND SAVED YOU DKP FOR? )

can we please stop whinning about the loot rules? they are here they are good and the make live easyer

Dajo · October 23, 2006, 02:04:22 PM

Few things I wanna say:

1. DKP is DKP yes, but some as you guys say, we are a TEAM, and a TEAM watches out for each other, so

2. it would be indeed nice to have a channel for loot, I whispered this idea some time ago to Bastet too, so you can see who want's what, and then consider if you still want it or pass it to the other player.

3. This game is about fun, teamplay AND LOOT, you can say it's not but do you want to play this game for 1,5 years in the same greenies as when you turned 60? No I didnt think so, this game coveres alot of different things and one of them is, yes, getting yourself upgraded. So saying it's not about loot at all is stupid.

4. I understand why someone would leave if he didnt got something he really really really wanted, loosing it time after time after time. I myself am not the person who would do this, I would never leave because of an item, but I'm only saying I understand him.

5. Too bad you left Keisuke, I will miss you alot man, you were a nice bloke, fun to talk too, and you did ALOT of DPS...everyone is replaceable but we won't find such a good rogue as you anytime soon mate.

I hope you will have a great time with whatever you are going to to, and me sure to whisper me once in a while.

Respect to you.

Dajo

Vargen · October 23, 2006, 05:58:38 PM

Quote from: Dajo;1581584. I understand why someone would leave if he didnt got something he really really really wanted, loosing it time after time after time. I myself am not the person who would do this, I would never leave because of an item, but I'm only saying I understand him.

04/25/06 Dalto Chromatically Tempered Sword (Earned: 2834.00)
09/17/06 Umbra Chromatically Tempered Sword (Earned: 7191.50)
07/23/06 Incentos Chromatically Tempered Sword (Earned: 5457.00)
10/22/06 Bastet Chromatically Tempered Sword (Earned: 10938.00)
09/03/06 Soulbringerx Chromatically Tempered Sword (Earned: 6885.00)

Keisuke - Earned: 4008.00 - Lifetime (07/09/06 - 10/22/06)

Ok, now pick which one didn't deserve it.

Dajo · October 23, 2006, 06:03:31 PM

Since you are quoting me, I'll reply to this, I didnt say anyone of these guys didn't deserve it, was talking about it in general.

Gorion · October 23, 2006, 06:39:31 PM

Quote from: Vargen;158031If there is stuff you want that badly, you would actually be well off letting ppl know. That is how Gorion got Thunderfury even. Squeeky wheel and so on.

one big squeeky wheel if i might add

Quote from: Keisuke;158070Well, i only took the dagger because i see no point in DEing the dagger. If it was possible, i would of passed the dagger to u if i could of gotten the sword but no. ain't possible.

you know... 2 warriors including me passed that dagger cos you wanted it, so it wasnt gonna get DEed.

leaving a guild cos you dont get that item you really want is bullcrap, cos in the end its 1 item. sure, youde have been furious.. but that aint no excuse.

well, cya

Bob · October 23, 2006, 06:42:59 PM

I'm not gonna get involved in this loot discussion - it's something that we seem to have gotten on a regular basis lately :eyebrow:

Only wanna say that I think it's sad to see you leave Keisuke - especially over such a reason :byesad:

StrontiumDog · October 23, 2006, 07:38:39 PM

I'm getting tired of this, we all knew the rules when we started raiding if you can't deal with that then don't start raiding.

For the people that leave, its going to mean that you will never get the item you want, or if you join another guild then you will be at the bottom of their dkp list and have to wait even longer.....silly.