Admin on Server

[TeaLeaf]

Folks, let's start getting on top of things on the server.  I was on for a period tonight and a lot was talked about on TS3 but little was actually done.  

If people break the rules, warn them & then kick them if they persist.

[Penfold]

I have to say that I've had about dozen complaints from different sides this last week.

Is there a way to see how often our members are playing on the servers and when? If there's a glaring hole when no admins are playing then we need to address it.

I know GM has been away and hopefully now he's back we can (have to) get this in hand :thumbsup2:.

[TeaLeaf]

The server logs GM has access to show when people join and leave and a quick search can be done for the tag to see when people are there.  I re-iterate what people are saying to me privately, they want to see the server pro-actively admin'd.  We need to do some work to bring the server up to standard rapidly.

[Gone_Away]

Personally I was away at a conference for the tail end of last week so I was unavailable. I was on Friday night as well as a brief stint on Sunday.
 
I agree with your statement overall and I would hope that any comments you chaps are receiving are or have been passed on to GhostMjr as a matter of course.
 
Everytime I've been on there has been at least one other admin.
 
The biggest challenge is with the team balancing as most folks don't know how to or don't like to switch.
 
I'm sure GM will be along shortly..
 
NF

[Penfold]

Well here's an example of a recent pm I've received (posted with permission).

..... Any attempt to approach the current admins is met with hostility and you  get ignored.

If you ask about a FAQ / servers rules all you get is the standard copy paste post, We are working on the rules set.

Its been a month since the release of the game, its never taken this long to get rules discussed, even said that basic ground rules, like swearing, TK'ing, no base raping. It's been a month, actually more as many members played in the beta, which gave a clear idea what the game would be like..

Worst part is that the admins neglect to fulfil these rules when its  not in their favour and are abusive when questioned on it.

I'm starting to wonder if it was a mistake even thinking to adopt this  game into the community.

Yes I'm concerned that we will see members starting to play for other communities and honestly I know people already are playing mainly on other servers... i admit I'm one of them.

[Penfold]

The server logs GM has access to show when people join and leave and a quick search can be done for the tag to see when people are there.  I re-iterate what people are saying to me privately, they want to see the server pro-actively admin'd.  We need to do some work to bring the server up to standard rapidly.

It may not be my place but Ghosty, do you have these logs and can we see them? It's not about checking up on people but rather seeing who else regularly plays it so could potentially be an admin.

Whenever I play for instance I see Blunt online. I also see Kregoron, Dewey  and others. If we have people playing regularly when no admins are around then perhaps we need to appoint a few more?

We're really at sink or swim here as to whether this game gets officially supported  and I, for one,  really want it to work as it's got loads of potential .

[GhostMjr]

Before i begin hopefully the below answers all the questions that have been posted and if you need any further clarity on any of the points please do let me know


I have been in discussion with multiple people to allow them to become admins a couple of weeks ago for public admins as it were

I don't want to discuss who as its not fair but the two I asked turned down the offer and i have been in discussion with my team as to who else we should extend this too.

The fact is i need a chat with my team and this needs to be done as soon as possible, now that i am back i can get a meeting together.

It is hard for us to all meet at once on ts and the main reason behind getting the forum up and running was so we could communicate.

I have a list of jobs to do and yes i want to get the server rules done but i don't want to set the rules by myself and with work as it is i want to discuss options on rules and have a heap of thoughts on what we can include and exclude, which i was about to post up this week.

The problem with bc2 is it isn't like css the maps aren't tiny and theres so many factors we have to take into consideration. To be frank each map needs a full run and play through to decide what we do and do not want to allow.

One main problem we currently have is the fact that the tools we have to admin aren't exactly perfect. We were at our last meeting sorting out a strategy for rules and other useful tools to help us admin such as guardian and bc2cc.

Basically in a nut shell clanforge lets us do what multiplay allows but we are learning configs commands and how to bind new commands and text within the game.

I have been getting criticism and yes i take criticism seriously i want the section to work and i am in the process of setting up another meeting with my team to discuss a whole range of issues.

One thing i do have on my side is a team of admins and we just need patience for us to work and get the rules sorted.

This game in proportion is harder to manage and alot larger than anything we have done before yes some may argue i am in the deep end and i "may" be struggling but I strongly believe in both my and my team's abilities ad so far we are doing a good job.

[big-paddy]

Well here's an example of a recent pm I've received (posted with permission).

 Ahh no quote.

Pen. Who, when, what, why? People are trying to do a job without the tools needed. I ask the gods to please give Ghosty and his crew a while to sort stuff. I am not happy with the suggestions that admins are 'neglectful', looking after their own score or abusive when questioned.

I'm sorry but I will not take this abuse myself. Please step up or sit down. Apologies if I have overstepped the mark, but nobody doing the admin job has stepped up for their own glory.

Give Ghosty and the admins a chance to make this work and support him and us or just stop the pain now.

Its late. I am annoyed. Sorry. But this is the way I see it. Normally I would now delete the post having got stuff off my chest but I cannot tonight. Whoever anonymously posted Pen has it right, how many more do you want to drive away by not being solid in your support for Ghosty?

I'll fetch me coat now.

BP

[Penfold]

The issue about the tools is addressed in another thread.

I'm not going to name names and I said I would post without so doing and it would be wrong of me to do otherwise. If the person wants to stand up then so be it.

As for supporting Ghosty and the game, We all do. But we're the public face of the Community so we get the complaints.

I only play on Monday and Thursday nights and I spent time admin'ing on Monday night, asking for people to be warned and kicked (and talking with that donkey about why people were leaving the server).

From my side we don't have enough admins period. A public server is just too chaotic to be admin'ed by one or two admins. It's not fair on those admins, it's not fair on players and it's can't be controlled effectively.

I know some people have turned down Admin but there's other dMw'ers who could step up the the mark. I can think of half a dozen people who could help admin it (and that's just from me playing irregularly).... Dewey, Tutonic, Blunt, Kregoron, Lionheart (perhaps you've asked them though and some of them turned it down). I'll go d/l the admin control panel and admin it as well. Tealeaf has done the same.

I know the game is in its infancy but it's a critical time for us to attract new players and members to the Community. acidrainy is one player who's come across.... we could do with 100 more.

I desperately want this to succeed and become adopted by dMw. I think it's a cracking game (albeit damned irritating for levelling up for those can't play it 24/7). That ain't going to happen unless we can control the server.

It's not a attack on the admins, it's a comment on the state of the server..... which I think could really be ameliorated with a few more admins and a basic ruleset.

[big-paddy]

Thanks for the post Pen. I feel less abused.

However the comments that you paste are quite specific and I think making such accusations incognito is cowardly, or perhaps we really are all a set of unhelpful b*stard*. Which side do you come down on?

If '..... Any attempt to approach the current admins is met with hostility  and you  get ignored.' and 'Worst part is that the admins neglect to fulfil these rules when its   not in their favour and are abusive when questioned on it.' then I think something needs to be done more than just pasting this here. Who is responsible for these acts? They should not be an admin and importantly where is the evidence of this happening, lets get it and kick them all - me included if you have evidence.
 
The second two points are unfair too. Has this person offered to step forwards as an admin? Perhaps they have better ideas than the rest of us.

'If you ask about a FAQ / servers rules all you get is the standard copy  paste post, We are working on the rules set.'
'Its been a month since the release of the game, its never taken this  long to get rules discussed, even said that basic ground rules, like  swearing, TK'ing, no base raping. It's been a month, actually more as  many members played in the beta, which gave a clear idea what the game  would be like..'

I really don't want to keep going on at this but person X seems to have special status. I expect I'll get an answer to this and I will refrain from answering. I don't want to cause a fuss. I have in RL many years ago been wrongly accused of something at work by an unnamed person. It was very unpleasant and to this day this kind of thing does really bug me.

BP

[Penfold]

The complaint was made by someone...... It's personal and it's subjective. *I* was the one who posted it as I was asked for specifics.

Ask 10 people their thoughts and we'll get 10 different answers.

I don't know which admins he's referring to and I don't particularly want to know. All I know is that it's not an isolated complaint and if nothing else it illustrates that there is a certain amount of angst.

With regards to the FAQ / Server rules, there is a need to it and it's our SOP that we produce one. Both for the admins so there's a standard governance framework in place and for players so they know what rules to follow.  (not sure about your comment on special status?).

Subjectivness aside there *are* problems with the server. Ninja's other posts in this forum prove it.  Some of it is down to the lack of tools, some of it is down to lack of admins and some of it is down to some admins not admin'ing. I don't think anyone can really argue with that?

All we're concerned with is trying to get this server into shape. Personally, (as stated) I think 99% of the problems is that we don't have enough admin cover on the server. However that's up to GM and you guys to decide whether or not that's the case and rectify it as necessary.

[Gone_Away]

Guys.. "Same Team"
 
I have a strong feeling of who the individual that has made these uncontructive comments is and believe you me, if they become even a public admin (however long that title lasts) I will immediately resign my post. That person has special status alright.. More like the special-needs status.
 
That aside, the honest criticism is that we need to be doing a bit more for our community in getting the ground rules out the door and adding some more structure. I am fully committed to this process (as I'm sure all of the admins are) and getting rules completed by the end of the weekend.
 
The tools aren't brilliant but we can kick, warn, and ban albeit with some effort. I'm glad that I have dual monitors running that allow me to see what is going on behind the scenes.
 
I don't want this to spiral out of control so let's keep it friendly.
 
One thing in your post Pen that I'm a little confused about is that you state that you're going to d/l the admin tools and do some admining yourself. With all due respect, shouldn't that be GhostMjr's call as to who admins the game / server? I appreciate your offer of assistance and if you are interested in being an admin I would expect to see you a wee bit more on the server playing so the GhostMjr can assess your willingness and ability to be an admin in this game. please don't take that as a personal attack..
 
Again "Same Team"

[Penfold]

I know we're on the same team silly and I'm sure Paddy will be only too happy to buy my several pints of Cider at the next LAN (and if he won't I will).

Yes on the admin side, you're quite right. I have no desire to admin the server and don't want to admin the server (I - as do the other Community Admins - spend enough hours a week working for dMw as it is).

However, sorry, if it's not being done/no admins are on then I'll do it myself whether GM-endorsed or not (and if that costs me being a CA then so be it). We've all worked too long and too hard trying to build a reputation and have standards for dMw to have it needlessly suffer. I know we don't always succeed and sometimes it all goes tits-up but we're trying our best and it's pretty thankless.

and yes, same team you daft sausage .

[T-Bag]

Everyone needs to clam down and remember the basics.

Yes, there are no specific rules, but that doesn't mean there are no rules.

Public Swearing (on teamspeak is a different matter as it's behind closed doors, though anyone uncomfortable should say - to the best of my knowledge this has never happened.),Team Wounding/Killing, Lone gunman tactics, and not working with your team are all investigated regularly, and I know for a fact they are looked at whenever I've been on the server. Using these and an admins discretion we can kick just about anyone who doesn't fit in. Yes we need to get some rules down, but a list of rules is not the be all and end all of a dmw game. It's not a miracle cure that will make everyone play perfectly.

As for the number of admins around, the job is made much easier when other people help out. If you get TKed and they don't apologise 99% of the time the admin won't be sure because he's not in the squad, so could easily miss an apology. Having 10 or even 20 admins on won't fix this. Most nights an admin can be reached, I know this as I'm on steam most nights. If a badged member  (shows they play by the rules and have some trust) of DMW asks me to kick someone with justification I don't even have to be online, I can watch for TKs in the admin tool, or just kick outright.
(Without a badge if it's not a TKing issue I'd have to pass it onto another admin, or jump onto the server, but action would be taken).

I'm not against having more admins, and ghost asked me my opinion of a few potentials so I know it's on the books, but again this won't suddenly make the job easier if there's already people around.

As for ignoring the dmw standard and being abusive, that is unacceptable and should be investigated further. It is serious breaking server rules from a position of trust, in much the same way as making this accusation to an admin if it turns out to be false. Either way this would warrant attention and likely action to whichever party stepped out of line.