Should planes be allowed on our AAS games?

big-paddy · November 04, 2005, 10:32:37 AM

Lib says jump in the stinger when you have a clear shot. Seems to me the first bombing run always takes out the stinger base - if there is one anyway.

Planes get shot down so little I have heard total shock from someone (shared by the whole team) when one actually was hit. Even that event was probably due to the bug where acidental deaths were attributed to another player as a kill.

I agree with Dewey lets do the test.

I agree with Ranger re: chopper vulnerability - we are always bringing them down.

Ranger · November 04, 2005, 10:59:56 AM

The ONLY time I have successfully brought down a plane are these:

1) Am in a AA vehicle where I have fired off multiple Stingers in quick succession as a plane went dirctly over...But luck plays a big part in this (them being a crap pilot helps to)...And...

2) I took out Armitage or Blunt (sorry cant remember) when he was HOVERING in that F35 over a flag! I grenaded him from underneath - brought him down with one grenade.

I can say that in all the time I have played BF2 I can probably count the times I have brought down planes on one hand. Not good.

Cadaver · November 04, 2005, 11:01:22 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by BlueBall@Nov 4 2005, 10:13 AM
The plane physics model is waaaaaay off.

IMNSHO of course
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Agree with you there wholeheartedy mate. Afterburners making you turn faster and tighter? What's that all about...

But the woeful flight dynamics are a topic for another thread.

Anyway guys, the fact of the matter is that AA, although not the one-shot fire-and-forget kill all you ground pounders seemingly want it to be, can still be effective. I have downed jets with it (and I'm about as far removed from being a l33t player as you can be), so it can be done. I've also been shot down by Oldie and Norm from fixed AA emplacements a few times now, so you can't just line a plane up on a bombing run and ignore the stinger locks.

AA is mostly a deterrent - the most effective counter for a jet, being another jet. I haven't seen any of you anti-jet detractors fly one in game yet. So rather than stating ad infinitum how it hurts to be bombed as infantry, and how vastly over-powered the jets are, put some effort in and learn to fly yourself. Get an effective counter up for your team! :ranting:
Maybe then I'll take these arguments a bit more seriously.

Phew! Have to cut back on the caffeine methinks.

Ranger · November 04, 2005, 11:10:18 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by Cadaver@Nov 4 2005, 11:01 AM
Agree with you there wholeheartedy mate. Afterburners making you turn faster and tighter? What's that all about...

But the woeful flight dynamics are a topic for another thread.

Anyway guys, the fact of the matter is that AA, although not the one-shot fire-and-forget kill all you ground pounders seemingly want it to be, can still be effective. I have downed jets with it (and I'm about as far removed from being a l33t player as you can be), so it can be done. I've also been shot down by Oldie and Norm from fixed AA emplacements a few times now, so you can't just line a plane up on a bombing run and ignore the stinger locks.

AA is mostly a deterrent - the most effective counter for a jet, being another jet. I haven't seen any of you anti-jet detractors fly one in game yet. So rather than stating ad infinitum how it hurts to be bombed as infantry, and how vastly over-powered the jets are, put some effort in and learn to fly yourself. Get an effective counter up for your team! :ranting:
Maybe then I'll take these arguments a bit more seriously.

Phew! Have to cut back on the caffeine methinks.
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LOL - its all good friendly debate mate...

If we don't descuss these things we can't improve the games can we.

I appreciate your stance - I would mayeb more on your side if I could fly the TANGO things! LMAO

A Twig · November 04, 2005, 12:46:12 PM

Not being funny, but I've found stingers to be pretty successful. I regularly managed to piss of the pilots on the odd ranked server by just sitting in a Stinger which was roughly on their circular attack/resupply route. Notched up 3 or 4 before they started blowing me up...

Norm · November 04, 2005, 01:19:32 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Cadaver@Nov 4 2005, 11:01 AM
Agree with you there wholeheartedy mate. Afterburners making you turn faster and tighter? What's that all about...

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The plane that hovers has whats called thrust vectoring,which can direct your thrust so as to aid your turning speed and angle.

Thats my story and I am sticking to it. :whistle:

Dewey · November 04, 2005, 01:38:18 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by A Twig@Nov 4 2005, 01:46 PM
Not being funny, but I've found stingers to be pretty successful. I regularly managed to piss of the pilots on the odd ranked server by just sitting in a Stinger which was roughly on their circular attack/resupply route. Notched up 3 or 4 before they started blowing me up...
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A Twig, well you need to tell the rest of us what we are doing wrong then because as you've read on this thread we cannot kill them with AA. The other thing to bear in mind here, is that a decent pilot ie our dMw pilots will make sure there planes have good health by flying over their air bases. I mean I've hit planes so rarely in all the hours I've played BF2 I couldn't even tell you if a successful AA hit on a plane kills it outright or just damages it. Does anyone know the answer to this?

I still think its a good idea to test it on the dmw server perhaps this weekend. I'm a crap pilot, ie I can fly but I can't kill anything, so I'll volunteer to fly it, and we'll get some of the dmw guys to shoot me and see if how easy or hard it really is. Though obviously a good pilot would be able to evade a lot better than me.

Anonymous · November 04, 2005, 01:46:00 PM

Today's useless Info:

Technically Anti Aircraft Missiles are just that, MISS-iles not HIT-iles. They are designed to miss the plane and then explode in close proximity to them. The missile usually contains hundreds of little tungsten (or something) cubes to shred the plane or some even have expanding rods of metal that increase in size as they move out from the explosion thus shredding the other plane. Very few if any missiles were designed to actually HIT the target

suicidal_monkey · November 04, 2005, 01:56:26 PM

I think it takes two stinger "hits" to take a plane down. I was harassing the TG pilots last night from a stinger site, just a pity there were so many oil-burning things around, else I'd have had a few of them!

QuoteOriginally posted by BlueBall@Nov 4 2005, 02:46 PM
Today's useless Info:
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:worship:

Dewey · November 04, 2005, 02:07:02 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Cadaver@Nov 4 2005, 12:01 PM
Anyway guys, the fact of the matter is that AA, although not the one-shot fire-and-forget kill all you ground pounders seemingly want it to be, can still be effective. I have downed jets with it (and I'm about as far removed from being a l33t player as you can be), so it can be done. I've also been shot down by Oldie and Norm from fixed AA emplacements a few times now, so you can't just line a plane up on a bombing run and ignore the stinger locks.

AA is mostly a deterrent - the most effective counter for a jet, being another jet. I haven't seen any of you anti-jet detractors fly one in game yet. So rather than stating ad infinitum how it hurts to be bombed as infantry, and how vastly over-powered the jets are, put some effort in and learn to fly yourself. Get an effective counter up for your team! :ranting:
Maybe then I'll take these arguments a bit more seriously.

Phew! Have to cut back on the caffeine methinks.
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Cadaver, we do not want or expect a one-shot fire-and-forget kill. What we do want is a fighting chance of hitting a plane from the ground. And at the moment we don't have that.

Personally I don't fly planes, because I like fighting on the ground. I find flying around boring to be honest and I'm not very good at it because I haven't put the hours in. But even when I do sometimes venture into the sky, usually on ranked servers the only time I die is usually when I crash

I appreciate you enjoy flying and if we had the numbers that the TG guys enjoy and where not playing AAS I wouldn't mind them.

Dewey · November 04, 2005, 02:14:44 PM

I think the main problem is that on some nights when you go on dMw one side may have a good pilot and the other side doesnt'. Worse, some nights you get two good pilots (ie Cadavar, Armitage, Lib) on the same side. I realise this is no-ones fault, but it gives one side a huge advantage and can make the game unbalanced and frustrating for the side that has no air cover.

Does anyone agree and if so how can we solve it?

Benny · November 04, 2005, 02:20:37 PM

I like the odd stint in a plane, I fly around, can't kill owt then decide to use it as a fast taxi.

Ranger · November 04, 2005, 02:22:13 PM

OK guys - to get everyone back on track...

Just to re-state some of teh premises about 'no jet planes' theory!

For a start my opinion is I don't mind them - ON BIG MAPS! (64 player)...

The maps are big enough to hold planes - and have enough people running around to justify them.

Where I see a proble is when you have a 4 v 4 player game on the dMw server and two of those guys are flying about in a jet.

To me anything bellow a 6 v 6 game should be 'infantry only' - full stop. It just marrs the game trying to have perhaps two guys out of four out of the game - in effect - because they are flying around (out of teh control of teh squad leader) bombing and straffing.

A 5 v 5 (or less) game really can't stand artillary or bombing because teh effect of a bombing run on such small teams is just too heavy. You could - in effect - wipe out the WHOLE of an opposing team with a good bomber strike!

That does not make for enjoyable or competitive play in my book.

We just all need to use some common sense - in games less than 6 v 6 lets say 'say out of teh planes', just as we say 'no commander'. When we get numbers on teh server above 6 v 6 then planes are fair play again (as there is less chance of wiping out the whole opposing force).

dMw is primariliy about enjoyment - and jet planes just do not make the infantry experience enjoyable when statistically you are liable to have a greater chance of dying with each and every bomb run...

Save the planes for larger matches where infantry at least have the advantage of safty in numbers. And I would quite happily accept bombing as a normal activity.

You can talk all you like about AA, whether planes are vunerable or not, and this that and the other - but in the end BF2 is primarily and infantry game and you have to ask; is it enjoyable for small player games to be so heavily influenced by jet bombers?

The answer is no.

Benny · November 04, 2005, 03:36:44 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Ranger@Nov 4 2005, 03:22 PM
OK guys - to get everyone back on track...

Just to re-state some of teh premises about 'no jet planes' theory!

For a start my opinion is I don't mind them - ON BIG MAPS! (64 player)...

The maps are big enough to hold planes - and have enough people running around to justify them.

Where I see a proble is when you have a 4 v 4 player game on the dMw server and two of those guys are flying about in a jet.

To me anything bellow a 6 v 6 game should be 'infantry only' - full stop. It just marrs the game trying to have perhaps two guys out of four out of the game - in effect - because they are flying around (out of teh control of teh squad leader) bombing and straffing.

A 5 v 5 (or less) game really can't stand artillary or bombing because teh effect of a bombing run on such small teams is just too heavy. You could - in effect - wipe out the WHOLE of an opposing team with a good bomber strike!

That does not make for enjoyable or competitive play in my book.

We just all need to use some common sense - in games less than 6 v 6 lets say 'say out of teh planes', just as we say 'no commander'. When we get numbers on teh server above 6 v 6 then planes are fair play again (as there is less chance of wiping out the whole opposing force).

dMw is primariliy about enjoyment - and jet planes just do not make the infantry experience enjoyable when statistically you are liable to have a greater chance of dying with each and every bomb run...

Save the planes for larger matches where infantry at least have the advantage of safty in numbers. And I would quite happily accept bombing as a normal activity.

You can talk all you like about AA, whether planes are vunerable or not, and this that and the other - but in the end BF2 is primarily and infantry game and you have to ask; is it enjoyable for small player games to be so heavily influenced by jet bombers?

The answer is no.
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I'd agree with that. Dammit, who let you join our community with your common sense and amicable ways?

FrEnZy · November 04, 2005, 03:54:40 PM

This may sound crasy but the 50 Cal machine guns (Jeeps, buggys, etc) can bring a plane down in short order. It takes some practise to get the hits but they REALLY tear up a plane, aslong as you spot the plane you can normally bring it down if its heading in your direction before its dropped its bombs.

These guns are also THE way to take down choppers imo (If your lucky you can also take out the crew of the aircraft in seconds leaving the jet to crash)