Oh Great.

Cadaver · January 04, 2006, 11:31:55 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by DogMeat@Jan 4 2006, 10:34 AM
Expansion packs. Mods. Add-ons. None of which are necessary if you set up a server for people to play on. I don't recall any of the many CS mods being forced on players just because a few people wanted to play them.

I'm guessing that the new server would be able to cope with running BF2 and BF2SF together for a night - anyone care to enlighten me?

Assuming that it can, then SF players can go off and do their thing leaving the rest to play vanilla. At least the rest of us would have a choice, which is more than we had last night.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not against mods, after all I founded the -=[dMw]=- clan based on Action Quake. I'm not, however, too keen on arbitrary decisions being taken to lock out clan members from the server just because they haven't bought the latest flavour-of-the-month.
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:withstupid: and that pretty much encompasses my thoughts on the subject. I do not own the SF expansion, and cannot see myself purchasing it in the near future.

Our server hardware should be easily capable of running both BF2 and BF2SF in tandem.

You can argue that running two servers will fragment the community, etc, etc. But IMHO that is far preferable than the exclusion of those who choose not to purchase an expansion pack for whatever individual reason. And in the end, this is what it all boils down to...choice, and the removal of it.

IMHO the choice to buy or not to buy the expansion pack should not affect a [dMw] community member's ability to play on their home servers. We managed this with CS, I'm sure we can come to an acceptable solution with BF2.

And I'm sorry, these arguments that one should "just buy it because it's cheap" are just plain weak.

Anonymous · January 04, 2006, 11:37:59 AM

We have been in a similar situation previously when CS:CZ was released. Some people bought it and others didn't. However, nobody was denied the right to play which is the point Doggers is making here. As a poll was taken it should be evident that not everyone has SF (I do but thats neither here nor there). the point is if the main server is capapble of running vanilla BF2 as well as BF2:SF (both with AAS) then the vanilla BF2 server should not have been turned off preventing community members from playing.

The admins will discuss the best way forward and then offer possible solutions to the community. At present I would suggest theat we could run both but TL would have to confirm the server can cope with load (I think it could) and we would have to be happy that having both running would not dilute the numbers to the point where people leave because there is not enough players to play a good game. If we do run both then my feeling is that the SF server would be started on certain nights so as not to cause dilution. However, these are only my thoughts and we need to discuss it in the admin section before offering suggestions to the community. In the meantime the BF2:AAS server will run as normal. Could I ask all BF2 admins not to turn it off it until further agreement has been reached on the way forward.

i thank you

Ranger · January 04, 2006, 11:39:48 AM

QuoteOriginally posted by DogMeat@Jan 4 2006, 11:29 AM
SF itself isn't the problem.
That is.
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I kind of get your point now DogMeat ~ but would still say that this doesn't 'lock' people out as such - not in the strictest sense.

Were it something that made it technically impossible for members to get in I would wholeheartedly agree with you...

But, again, this is an official expansion.

- For example, were you still on patch 1.01 and could not get into Meathook because we run patch 1.02, you wouldn't say we were 'locking' you out.

People just accept that they have to keep up to date with game updates in order to play...

The way I look at it SF is a game update ~ but with the added 'advantage' that, as a group, we can decide whether to adopt it or not...

The price of adopting this expansion isn't much - Â£14.99, so it's hardly a major stumbling block should the group as a whole deside to adopt it...

And anyway, the idea is that we restrict this adoption to certain nights of teh week to accomodate those who don't have the expansion.

...I think that's very fair. As it doesn't exclude anyone from playing the vanilla game as usual if they want to!

But to be fair to you - can I ask you why you DON'T want to buy SF? (Not being cheeky, just really would like to know what it is about the expansion that you don't like.)

Dewey · January 04, 2006, 11:51:38 AM

Dogmeat, I understand you being annoyed at not being able to play on the dMw server last night.

However, you said

Quotejust because a few people wanted to play them

implying that its just a small minority who have SF which it clearly isn't if the polls we took are correct.

The majority of dMw BF2 players also have SF so its understandble that they want to play SF occaisionally. Its equally annoying for the majority of SF owners that they haven't got a regular night that they can play SF on. I believe this is only the 3rd time its been tried out on the server since SF's launch some months ago.

I agree that if we had larger numbers playing BF2 it would be worthwhile to split the BF2 and SF onto seperate servers. Unfortunatley this isn't really feasible at the moment due to the smaller numbers - you would end up fragmenting the BF2 players and never getting a decent game on either.

Like Ranger I find the seeming them and us attitude to SF confusing. This is an official EA expansion and therefore could not be described as -

Quotethe latest flavour-of-the-month

, it is not just a 3rd party mod or an addon.

Inevitably, more and more people will buy the expansion and want to play it on our server.

Is it not fair to have at least one SF night and trial it too see how it works out and if its popular? We need to find a solution thats amicable for everyone.

*wouldn't you know it, my long winded message has subsequently been negated by previous comments*

DogMeat · January 04, 2006, 11:56:43 AM

I turned up last night to play BF2. I couldn't because I was locked out and told to go and buy SF. Annoyance sets in.

Try again. Still locked out, so I follow the link and find that for $29 or thereabouts I can spend the next two and a half hours downloading SF, plus (say fiteen minutes) installation time. After which the server will be empty anyway. Annoyance escalates, wisps of steam begin leaking from ears.

Spend time in the forums looking for the discussion/vote about closing the server to some clan members. No luck. Vein in temple now visibly throbbing.

Why didn't I buy SF? Because I don't need it to play BF2. Simple. I installed it, patched it - not unreasonable requirements, given that updating solves problems in the original code.

SF is not a patch, nor does it fix anything.

Boris · January 04, 2006, 12:17:34 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by DogMeat@Jan 4 2006, 11:56 AM
I turned up last night to play BF2. I couldn't because I was locked out and told to go and buy SF. Annoyance sets in.

Try again. Still locked out, so I follow the link and find that for $29 or thereabouts I can spend the next two and a half hours downloading SF, plus (say fiteen minutes) installation time. After which the server will be empty anyway. Annoyance escalates, wisps of steam begin leaking from ears.

Spend time in the forums looking for the discussion/vote about closing the server to some clan members. No luck. Vein in temple now visibly throbbing.

Why didn't I buy SF? Because I don't need it to play BF2. Simple. I installed it, patched it - not unreasonable requirements, given that updating solves problems in the original code.

SF is not a patch, nor does it fix anything.
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but its a natural evolution of the game!

Why didn't I buy SF? Because I don't need it to play BF2.

im sure your graphics card plays BF2, but youll get another, better one eventually

Dewey · January 04, 2006, 12:18:32 PM

As I said I can understand your frustration I know how annoyed I felt after jingle bells tourney when all the servers went down :ranting:

Would it not be fair to choose one day to play SF for those who want it, but make sure it doesn't conicide with popular BF2 nights, ie Sunday and Monday?

Anonymous · January 04, 2006, 12:22:07 PM

As previously mentioned we will discuss this in the admin forum and offer suggestions based on what we can supply. Till then I suggest we let things lie as I don't want to have to lock the thread.

Boris · January 04, 2006, 12:24:13 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Dewey@Jan 4 2006, 12:18 PM
As I said I can understand your frustration I know how annoyed I felt after jingle bells tourney when all the servers went down :ranting:

Would it not be fair to choose one day to play SF for those who want it, but make sure it doesn't conicide with popular BF2 nights, ie Sunday and Monday?
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:withstupid:

what we need to do next is figure how to get the non-SFers to come across!!!

Ranger · January 04, 2006, 12:25:06 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by DogMeat@Jan 4 2006, 11:56 AM
I turned up last night to play BF2. I couldn't because I was locked out and told to go and buy SF. Annoyance sets in.

Try again. Still locked out, so I follow the link and find that for $29 or thereabouts I can spend the next two and a half hours downloading SF, plus (say fiteen minutes) installation time. After which the server will be empty anyway. Annoyance escalates, wisps of steam begin leaking from ears.

Spend time in the forums looking for the discussion/vote about closing the server to some clan members. No luck. Vein in temple now visibly throbbing.

Why didn't I buy SF? Because I don't need it to play BF2. Simple. I installed it, patched it - not unreasonable requirements, given that updating solves problems in the original code.

SF is not a patch, nor does it fix anything.
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Sorry to seem argumentative!

But likewise you don't NEED to buy SF to play on Meathook! - The majority of days are set aside for vanilla BF2, the discussions (in the SF threads) have all been about reserving ONE day to being an SF day.

And the reason we (want to) have a particular day set aside is precisly to avoid and confusion for other dMw members. - SO - Tuesday (for example) will be know to everyone to be SF Tuesday (or whatever).

No, SF is not a patch nor does it fix anything - but that's our point - it's an official expansion - meant to impart joy and celebration among those who like BF2 because it adds more cool stuff for you to enjoy!

As others have pointed out - there have ONLY beed two or three occassions since SF came out when we have tried it out on the dMw server...This despite a poll which suggests that the majority (who expressed an interest) OWN SF!

So it's not like those that own SF are being hugly bombastic and unreasonable.

And in the spirit of dMw neither is it - I think - too much of an inconvinience for one member to take into consideration the needs of another by understanding they might want to try something a little different occassionally.

Was one night of inconvinience to you such a big price to pay so that other dMwers could have a fun night - particularly as the evening was discussed on the forum.

I don't think it's worth getting upset about ~ I missed the very first game dMw did with SF because mine hadn't arrived!

Chill mate!

As I said - this doesn't lock people out - there are 6 more nights in the week!

Nobody is TELLING you you HAVE to buy SF - you don't. Meathook is still almost exclusively a vanilla BF2 server...

One night does not make a 'lock out'!

Anonymous · January 04, 2006, 12:35:00 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Ranger@Jan 4 2006, 12:25 PM
Sorry to seem argumentative!

But likewise you don't NEED to buy SF to play on Meathook! - The majority of days are set aside for vanilla BF2, the discussions (in the SF threads) have all been about reserving ONE day to being an SF day.

And the reason we (want to) have a particular day set aside is precisly to avoid and confusion for other dMw members. - SO - Tuesday (for example) will be know to everyone to be SF Tuesday (or whatever).

No, SF is not a patch nor does it fix anything - but that's our point - it's an official expansion - meant to impart joy and celebration among those who like BF2 because it adds more cool stuff for you to enjoy!

As others have pointed out - there have ONLY beed two or three occassions since SF came out when we have tried it out on the dMw server...This despite a poll which suggests that the majority (who expressed an interest) OWN SF!

So it's not like those that own SF are being hugly bombastic and unreasonable.

And in the spirit of dMw neither is it - I think - too much of an inconvinience for one member to take into consideration the needs of another by understanding they might want to try something a little different occassionally.

Was one night of inconvinience to you such a big price to pay so that other dMwers could have a fun night - particularly as the evening was discussed on the forum.

I don't think it's worth getting upset about ~ I missed the very first game dMw did with SF because mine hadn't arrived!

Chill mate!

As I said - this doesn't lock people out - there are 6 more nights in the week!

Nobody is TELLING you you HAVE to buy SF - you don't. Meathook is still almost exclusively a vanilla BF2 server...

One night does not make a 'lock out'!
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Ranger.

I think you need to tone down your comments. No decision has been made as to how things will go forward. Despite my posting twice that it is to be discussed in the admin forum you seem to insist on keeping this discussion going. Enough!

Thread now locked!