DKP

[Keltor]

Yo, I was just wondering what happens when something drops and nobody but just you wanted the loot. Do you still have to spend DKP on it or you get it for free by default? And what happens if you are the last person in your class to get a class specific item? My friend's guild works by giving players loot by default without spending DKP if nobody wants and I only need to know if we're using the same system. Btw coming back tomorrow from holiday!!

[Padding]

Generally the system is that we need to spend DKP all the time when getting an item. If noone wants it, it gets DE'ed since we need the Nexus Crystals

[Soulbringerx]

Any one know if the dkp site is comming back up or did the link change?

[Padding]

Its being reviewed at the moment, and we are doing all we can to get it back up as soon as possible

[Neff]

If the de'ing of items keep on , we shouyld maybe start a dkp bidding?

well , should is a strong word its just a suggestion


~

[TeaLeaf]

You should also remember there is a current 'need' for Nexus crystals.  An awful lot of top end enchants need them.

TL.

[Torir]

Imo the "getting an item dkp free by default" would be unfair to the other members of the raid, who have gotten the item before at the set value.
For example: I'm probably going to be one of the last if not the last priest in RG1 to get the Bindings of Transcendence, bearing in mind these cost a huge 200dkp, I don't think the other 6 priests would be too happy if I got them for free

The system might also make people wait until no one else needs it, just so that they can get it dkp free. This might lead to 2 people wanting the same item, which they don't want to spend dkp for, and if they don't whisper, they won't get the item and so it will get DE'ed, just a thought

[Umbra]

what torir just said, people would end up just waiting until it was free. and also unfair on people beforehand.

just an aside btw, since the argument over alts getting dkp etc ages back, i notice that there are 2 alts on the dkp site, there may be more but i only recognise a couple.

since they are alts and they do have dkp, i won;t bother to ask if alts do get them as clearly this is the case. more i'm interested in, is there a limitation on what they can buy?

[ratatosk]

Let all loot be auctioned then.  
If we do that all ppl can get an item at any amount.

Example: Mr X has 2000 DKP and Ms Y has 1000, and An item drop tha both wants! today Mr x will get it, but if we have an auction Both can bid on it and Mr X can still get it if he wants because he can outbid Ms Y.

Problem is that Items will/can be very expensive, and it will take longer time to sort loot.

But its a solution to the problem of DE some items! Then u can get a second Helmet or what it may be and make another ench on it. without paying a high amount of DKP.

I know other guilds have this system.

Just a thought

Best regards Rata
 :coolio:

[Torir]

Originally posted by Umbra@Apr 21 2006, 09:06 AM
what torir just said, people would end up just waiting until it was free. and also unfair on people beforehand.

just an aside btw, since the argument over alts getting dkp etc ages back, i notice that there are 2 alts on the dkp site, there may be more but i only recognise a couple.

since they are alts and they do have dkp, i won;t bother to ask if alts do get them as clearly this is the case. more i'm interested in, is there a limitation on what they can buy?

[post=123242]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

I would guess that they would be able to get an item as long as no one's main needs the item. For example: Deadlyspirit's rogue, Deadlyblow, obtained Perdition's Blade and another rogue alt obtained BF pants. This was because the only other rogues in the group were Menedil and Bastet, that had both, and the alts were kind enough to come in for some extra dps on Ragnaros

[Sebas]

Originally posted by ratatosk@Apr 21 2006, 11:48 AM
Let all loot be auctioned then.
If we do that all ppl can get an item at any amount.

Example: Mr X has 2000 DKP and Ms Y has 1000, and An item drop tha both wants! today Mr x will get it, but if we have an auction Both can bid on it and Mr X can still get it if he wants because he can outbid Ms Y.

Problem is that Items will/can be very expensive, and it will take longer time to sort loot.

But its a solution to the problem of DE some items! Then u can get a second Helmet or what it may be and make another ench on it. without paying a high amount of DKP.

[post=123248]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

Yeah, my former guild used that system. Its kinda good except be prepared to pay, HUGE amounts if you want a certain item as first. And it takes time, lots of time. The sorting of the loot was as long as any boss fight in MC. :blink: (not Garr, hes just a bozo with too much hp  :eyebrow: ) Aswell as the ones who get it as last will pay almost nothing.

[kregoron]

I dont like the auction thing as some people will just wait and get the item for nothing... BUt may i ask why people think is wrong with the current system, i think it works fine... cant see why we should change it..
And for the spare epix thats gets De'ed.. why do you want to buy em? to disenchant.. ? well we can get the nexus crystals awfully cheap in my oppinion.. And Guildbank needs the nexus.. about the spare items.. well when we get too the time where Guildbank has more then enough,.. (Dunno if it would ever happen) then people could start buying extra helm, chests and stuff for different enchants..

[Bob]

Originally posted by kregoron@Apr 21 2006, 05:38 PM
I dont like the auction thing as some people will just wait and get the item for nothing... BUt may i ask why people think is wrong with the current system, i think it works fine... cant see why we should change it..

[post=123281]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

Would just like to say that I totally agree with what Kreg says.  I don't see any problem with the system as it is now at all.  It as worked fine like this for a long time

And as long as the guild bank doesn't have a desperat need for nexus crystals, I don't see a problem with anybody getting a second set item (e.g. to have a different enchant on) if they want to spend the DKP on it - as long as everybody else in the raid has the item ofc, that is

[Gorion]

current system worked fine for months.. it shouldnt be changed

[JanuZ]

Originally posted by Gorion@Apr 21 2006, 08:13 PM
current system worked fine for months.. it shouldnt be changed

[post=123294]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

First of the current system isn't fine, It does work well and has worked for nearly a year now but the thing is that it has some inflation problems. This was brought up in August last year and there was talk about changing it but it wasn't done while we were still raiding with Danu and then i quit raiding a short time later so someone else took over the DKP site.

Now to answer some questions that have been answered many times before

Why not give items for free to people that get it last?

This wouldn't be fair to other people that got the item for the full price. If you aren't willing to spend DKP that isn't worth anything for an item it is of more use as a nexus crystal.

Why not Bid system?

Even though it does remove the inflation problem for the most part it doesn't do the function of what a DKP system is supposed to do. A DKP system isn't for giving you your hard earned epics. It is to spread the items around the guild in a way that you have the best equiped raid at every time. This means that a person that raids 80% of the time should have better gear than a person at 60% attendance since he raids more and makes more use of the gear. But the person with 60% attendance should also have good gear since the person at 80% can't raid all the time and will be replaced when he can't by persons with lower attendance and you don't want the raid to suffer much from this. A bid system can screw this spread out with alliances forming with in classes to get the set pieces cheap to have enough DKP to win against other classes on items that more classes can have.
  Now even though the DKP system is meant to spread the items in the best favor for the guild to help progression it does give personal award for time spent also.

Why not Zero sum system?

Zero sum only gives DKP for eventual boss kills this doesn't really encourage people to try new bosses since it doesn't give you any DKP for the time spent learning the encounter.

Why not roll on loot?

Because roll is random so it can't spread the items in a way that it benefits the raid the most.

Why not weighted rolls where you can add DKP to the roll?

Though this is a nice system again it is still random and doesn't give players the award for time spent nor does it give as good a spread of items for the raids benefit.

Why not loot counsil?

Because i didn't think of it when we were starting to raid. I think this is the best system for loot distribution. But it does require alot of work for the officers though and the guild has to trust the officers to be fair when giving out the loot.

Alts?

I don't know the current guild policy on alts in raids but i think an alt with an epic is just as good use as an nexus crystal. As long as the alt can't take items from main characters and there is a shared DKP for the Alt/Main i have no problem with it but this is up to officers to decide not me. Why there are alts on the DKP site? because if there was an alt in a raid the officers will most likly add him to the DKP site since they usually just copy a list of persons in the raid to the site with out checking what names are on it.

What do you mean with inflation in the current system?

I don't know what the numbers are right now but in October there was double the amount of DKP that came into the system as there went out of it. Needless to say with time this means that a person that with very good attendance will soon get every item he wants first because he slowly gets more DKP then he spends. this really isn't a big problem since it only gives people a slight advantage and it takes extremly long time. Usually it keeps the spread the way you want it anyway but this is a problem even though it doesn't have a big impact.

Will this be fixed?

Maybe there is talk about changing this system or making a new system.




People focus to much on the DKP, the DKP is a number that is of no use to you except you get items for it. The items have minimal effect on your own performance in a raid and it has no effect on the raid if you get it or another person gets it. Most of the people here only use the items while raiding or maybe the ocassional guild PvP(for some of you alot of guild PvP). Now when raiding does it really matter if it is you using that ToEP or another mage. Does it matter if another rogue is using that dagger in the raid or not? Raiding is a group effort not gear effort and in most cases who gets the loot isn't important as long as someone gets it that continues raiding. I don't know about you people but i never raided for the loot, loot was a small bonus that came once in a while but it is alot more fun seeing a boss go down for the first time then seeing what loot is on him. The gear might have some impact on your PvP play but it isn't extremely important and you will get gear in time but your PvP doesn't help the guild progress in raiding and you can't get better items for your PvP if the guild doesn't progress.