DKP Issue for RG2 - Need to Attend Raid?

[TeaLeaf]

Message Forwarded From Sazgul

Hi TL

I was wondering last night, when RG2 was in progress, why Zyriax could say no to join the raid. I can understand if he's a casual raid'er, but what i dont is he can say no when RG2 are in need of mages, and when he's in minus DKP? Isen't he obligated to join and at least work off his minus DKP. Then I could understand him saying no, and do PVP or instead - but getting items and not paying for em' I dont get.

Zyriax . Member . 60 . Mage . 166.00 . 275.00 . 0.00 . -109.00
Last raid: 04/13/06.

But this said, I would like to praise the Officers and all people helping RG2. I speak for all ex-NG members when I say this. We are all pleased with the effort the Officers are putting into RG2. I've already told Vargen this.
We all love playing WoW in SoG, and came to feel like SoG's.
So I hope you'll keep it up!
We do nice progress, and Raggy is soon to drop hard to the groud.

Just wanted to say, so you don't think we take it all for granted.

Don't mind the spelling Hope you got the essence of it all.

Regards Sazgul

An interesting PM received from Sazgul.  I think he has a point.  

When an RG2 member is online and RG2 is raiding and that RG2 member has negative DKP they have an obligation to raid and in those cases I would expect them to raid, not sit doing PVP or something else.  I therefore propose two changes:

Firstly, the inclusion of the below (from our Application Requirements) in our Raid Rules.  It relates to raid rules but is not yet in them formally!

Please be aware that whilst an Initiate can receive Epic loot, your DKP account cannot be overdrawn in excess of -200 DKP. The Officer's reserve the right to amend this rule without prior notice as they see fit. Fiery and Lava Cores may only be purchased with positive DKP and as Officer's discretion and Guild Bank supplies allow.

Secondly, the inclusion of this additional raid rule:

Any member who has previously taken Epic drop items and has accrued a negative DKP balance must join Guild DKP-eligible raids when online in order to clear the deficit of DKP and get back to a positive DKP balance.

What think you folks?

TL.

[Tanales]

i think its an ok rule and sazgul got a point,
but ppl might not want to follow it as it forces them to raid if they have negative DKP.

[Bastet]

id rather see a general attendance rule like i was thinking out loud in the public section of the forum, as in over 3 weeks attend 4 out of 6 raids.

and erm we NEED to make a system where we can check the attendance of guardians cause frankly i dont have a ****ing clue about who raids enough and who doesnt, but considering the ammount of ppl from RG 2 that join our BWL raids lately i am sure we dont have enough attandance....

i know we tried this before on this thread but that died off fairly quickly.

any good ideas about systems that would for this?

[TeaLeaf]

Originally posted by Tanales@Apr 28 2006, 10:16 AM
i think its an ok rule and sazgul got a point,
but ppl might not want to follow it as it forces them to raid if they have negative DKP.

[post=124063]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

Then don't take the epic until you have enough DKP?  It is the member's choice, and it really shoudl not put them out too much as all it says is that when a raid is on and they are online then their priority shoudl be to repay the debt they have with the Guild.

TL.

[TeaLeaf]

The problem would need to be handled on a system separate to DKP and updated by whomever had the queue.  We could use a duplicate of the DKP system (run separately for our own attendance purposes) and the site could have *just* RG1 and RG2 attendance.  The attendance list is then copied across to the site for each raid and the queue added to the site manually.  This then gives us a list of those who have been available to raid and stats that correctly show percentage attendance.

TL.

[Ragnarh]

DKP is not curency, it is a quesystem,a quesystem that starts at -200 and gives a startin poss of 0 DKP.
If you are in negative dkp you don't ove the guild anything , as we in turn as a guild don't ove shittloads of stuff to ouor members with loads of DKP.

And as for attencance . I stil see if Warriors are faling to far behind on attendance (as in checking raids for new warriors). And they seem to be dooing theyr part.
Tho some not turning upp for a key raid like sunday may leave a big impression.

[TeaLeaf]

Originally posted by Ragnarh@Apr 30 2006, 11:45 AM
DKP is not curency, it is a quesystem,a quesystem that starts at -200 and gives a startin poss of 0 DKP.
If you are in negative dkp you don't ove the guild anything , as we in turn as a guild don't ove shittloads of stuff to ouor members with loads of DKP.

It is a currency, a currency of favour.  Therefore you either have it ro do not and when you get favour and neve rhad any then you have a moral obligation to work off that debt.  Symantics allows you to say it's a queue and the same symantics allows me to add this point.  The point remains, queue, favour or just BS it is still 'fair' that when someone gets an epic and we all say *you deserved it* that the same rules apply to someone who gets an epic and does not deserve it as they neve rput the effort into it.  You're an officer Ragnarh, you're allowed to make those interpretations.

TL.

[KreuZ]

Well I'd want the rule myself but I also wouldn't like it because it forces people to raid, which I've avoided like the plague  . But he has a very good and valid point.