Loot Rules

[Menedil]

Enchantment items :

Players with revered reputation may roll for the enchantment item if it is for their FIRST enchant only OR second enchant if there are none with exalted rolling.

Players with exaltede reputation may roll for the enchantment item if it is for their FIRST or SECOND enchant.

Players with less reputation may roll only if there is none with revered or higher reputation that are rolling.

Mains get priority over alts.


This is the rules we used for the hexxer enchantment item today, and it seemed to be favoured over the first one.


Hexxer and Hakkar loot :

All loot is prioritised to main characters.


Suggestion for future rules:

For blue loot :  open to all.

For epic loot :

Main characters can roll at honoured or above reputation
Alt characters can roll at revered or above reptuation.
If no mains are honoured that want it, all can roll.

Stops first time people getting awesome loot which "veteran" raiders want, while giving alts a chance, but gives mains chance of getting it first.

Maybe different rep requirements? But i think this will make people have to come and "earn" the epic loot more tahn before where we have had some people come in on their first time and take heart of hakkar, and we havent seen them in ZG since.

Discuss, and feel free to add suggestions which are not motivated by desire to get a certain item for yourself.


Edit:  Ofc there are certain class priorities for some items like the tank ring set to tanks, etcetcetc

Edit2: adjustments will have to be made to this for it to work in AQ as rep can be gained elsewhere so is not neccesarily indicative of attendance to the raids, as ZG rep is - but this can be done easily enough.

[Padding]

I think there should be some extra requirements to the trinket thingie if you dont already count it into the rules already stated

[Menedil]

perhaps for heart, exalted first prio, then revered, then honoured, etc?

[Vargen]

Originally posted by Menedil@Jun 23 2006, 10:56 PM
perhaps for heart, exalted first prio, then revered, then honoured, etc?

[post=133243]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

This seems as a fair system, but it might piss off the lootwhores (read: warlocks), that are only there for the heart.

The rest of the system with reputation priority over main/alt priority would also be nice, as I am currently going on Danu's ZG raids with my alts because of the "alts don't get epics" rule. It's not verry motivating for ppl that bring their alt EVERY raid to ZG loose epics to mains that are there for the one time or so. Just because you play your main, doesn't mean you automatically deserve ALL the epic loot.
But by all means, this is your show. I will however try my best to be available for the raids, and if you should need it answer questions and offer opinions. It may not look like it, but I and many with me appriciate the work you put in to these raids. The rest just don't see what's there becasue they are too used to it. I think the ones that were here before we actually could do a ZG run are the only ones that really get what you put in to this.

Enough rambling...  

[Padding]

The eternal problem with a ALT is that its not your main character, so if you are rolling with a main character you might get some loot that will not the benefit the guild the most since you are playing more hours on your main character than on your ALT.

The reputation over less reputation is KEY in my opinon. So what if you get the loot last if you dont have enough reputation? YOU GET WHAT YOU GIVE

Dont expect to just join 1 run and win all the cool epix, thats just not fair for the rest of us who spent hours and hours learning the instance getting the repair bills.

Again yesterday i lost a VERY useable sword and i can just feel myself turning into a major lootwhore when i cant improve my character because i just cant get the things i want really

WANT A REALLY FAIR SYSTEM?

Use DKP thats the only fair thing. Thats why everybody else is using it for the 40-man instances, its no cooincidince really.

[Bastet]

Originally posted by Menedil@Jun 23 2006, 11:39 PM
Enchantment items :

Players with revered reputation may roll for the enchantment item if it is for their FIRST enchant only OR second enchant if there are none with exalted rolling.
Players with exaltede reputation may roll for the enchantment item if it is for their FIRST or SECOND enchant.
Players with less reputation may roll only if there is none with revered or higher reputation that are rolling.
Mains get priority over alts.

This is the rules we used for the hexxer enchantment item today, and it seemed to be favoured over the first one.

Hexxer and Hakkar loot :

For blue loot :  open to all.
For epic loot : Main characters can roll at honoured or above reputation
Alt characters can roll at revered or above reptuation.
If no mains are honoured that want it, all can roll.

[post=133239]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

The bits i highlighted are kinda working against one another, this still means that if i want an enchant for sokhar i have to go to another non guild run since lately the through put (ammount of new mains and alts in the ZG runs) is so high that it would be hard enough for a main to get 2 enchants. there was last nite at least 6 or 7 ppl rolling for thier first enchant. which would make 7 runs or 3,5 week before they all get 2 enchants, in that time its pritty likely that another 5 new ppl showed up. I like the system where the alt has to have revered to be liable for 1 enchant and exhalted for 2. This makes it possible for alts to get atleast there enchants if they put a lot of time into ZG.
As for the epic loot priority for mains on hexxer and hakkar, thats fair, the items are so good.

Edit there is also nothing in there about having to have the item you want the enchant on with you, which was said last nite.

[Menedil]

reputation was merely intended to be a meter of how much a person has attended.

currently an alt could have the opinion that there's no point going to zg, because there might always be  a main character there who will want the same thing as they do, so they mihgt not even get a chance to roll for something

with the suggested way, they might think "well, at least next week i will be able to roll for it" - encouraging turnup.

you gotta realise, that for alts this IS most likely all they will ever be able to get. for main characters we will be able to get better things in the future. and more than one person has expressed their concerns about the alt-"cant get loot ever" thing. this is paralel to the pally de-prioritised on everything loot discussion in the main forums.

i guess you can take the view that its in the guilds best interest to give all the best gear to the mains. hell, why not go a step further and say that we wont roll, we'll assign loot however we see fit to best benefit the guild.

or you could take the view that best way to benefit the guild would be to keep all its members happy, not just the ones who dont have alts.

most alts realise that the loot isnt going to benefit the guild if they get it rather than if a main got it - but does a alt who's been on 10 runs deserve a drop more than a main who's there on his first time? definately.

Again yesterday i lost a VERY useable sword and i can just feel myself turning into a major lootwhore when i cant improve my character because i just cant get the things i want really

you lost it to dil, who has also been there a hell of a lot (not so much recently, but i recall him being there on almost every run before he left the guild), i think the problem here isnt concerning who got it, rather that you didnt get it.

i was trying to come up with a system that rewards people who put time and effort in, and doesnt discriminate against certain people because theyre not a main character.

i honestly think that giving alts no chance for epic loot (basically what we have now) is counter-productive and against what we set out to do with the 20 man raids.

just a little question: would you consdier a soldier main as eligible as a guardian main for loot? a better division would be 40 man raid characters, and non-40 man raiders, rather than mains and alts maybe.

running a dkp system for this is overkill, but if your volunteering to do it then be my guest

bastet: MOST alts wont be in a position where it's worth them getting THE best enchant in the game on their gear, sokhar's an exception as you have potential access to MC/OL gear. and... why should sokhar get 2 enchants while bastet has 2 as well, before some people even have 1?

[Menedil]

also regarding limits to the number of alts in a raid, id rather not set a limit, rather leave it at our discretion, as we have control over who is approved to the raid. this is because some alts (take shadowe or sokhar for example) are just as good to take along as mains.

[Vargen]

Btw, my hunter is also not far off on gear at the moment, and I would like to bring him along for future ZG raids. Currently I have one tier 2 item and two tier 1 items and starting on the bow quest.

But on topic; Doing it this way might even get you more attendance, as many see the "no loot to alts" rule as a reason to look elsewhere for loot.

[lunares]

Ì agree with most parts.

And i think the main has more priority is still in there for a reason let me try to clarify it with an example.
Padding has been on 50 raids (fictional number) and so does requim(alt of mine). Now an item drops we both want we are both exalted. Now prolly Padding would get it cause he has more use for it and also spend a lot of time in it.

This is the way i see it and doesnt reflect any one else his opinions.

Lunares

[kregoron]

Originally posted by Padding@Jun 24 2006, 08:44 AM

Again yesterday i lost a VERY useable sword and i can just feel myself turning into a major lootwhore when i cant improve my character because i just cant get the things i want really

WANT A REALLY FAIR SYSTEM?

Use DKP thats the only fair thing. Thats why everybody else is using it for the 40-man instances, its no cooincidince really.

[post=133266]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

Yes a DKP system might be the best solution for it, as it is the best way to benefit those who always turn up. But it takes a lot of time and energy and is it worth for the 20man,?
I got a feeling how much energi this takes to maintain and use such a system, but then are we up for it? it has been to discussion 10 times i think, i could be up for maintaining such a system, but i dont know with you others.

For the lewt

The new system rewarding for rep is the way to do it in my oppinion if we dont use a dkp system, it benefits those who have put energi and effort into the 20 man instances..

bastet: MOST alts wont be in a position where it's worth them getting THE best enchant in the game on their gear, sokhar's an exception as you have potential access to MC/OL gear. and... why should sokhar get 2 enchants while bastet has 2 as well, before some people even have 1?

As for this post by Menedil i agree with him, it would not be fair in my oppinion to some people have gotten 2 enchants on main and then getting enchant on alt where some mains still dont have their first, i for one dont even have my first one yet as i havent been so lucky to get my hands on a book but this might change now with the books not required..

As for the attendence props ive got the feeling that we might see more people in ZG when they start to notice some of the new items that has been implemented in ZG, it might be me that is hoping to much, but ill try to get it added to my lootlist over ZG and post a list of the new items in the forum so people can see it.. cause from what ive seen until now the new items there are quite nice...
But this gives me new thoughts.. with these epix getting implemented this new rule might become even more crusial

For epic loot :

Main characters can roll at honoured or above reputation
Alt characters can roll at revered or above reptuation.
If no mains are honoured that want it, all can roll.

Stops first time people getting awesome loot which "veteran" raiders want, while giving alts a chance, but gives mains chance of getting it first.

Maybe different rep requirements? But i think this will make people have to come and "earn" the epic loot more tahn before where we have had some people come in on their first time and take heart of hakkar, and we havent seen them in ZG since.

As it still prioritise the mains over alts cause of the lower rep required but still gives the people who have spent a lot of time with their alts to get the required rep a chanc e of some epix there..
Ill think a bit more over the rules..

Note: Sorry for not being much online this weekend but my Bigsister is going to Canada for the next 6 months and so ive decided to spent some time with her...

[Bastet]

At the risk of sounding like a complete lootwhore let my try and explain a bit on my previous post  

Originally posted by Kregoron+-->

QUOTE(Kregoron)

Aszune (Alliance):
Sokhar lv 80 (H/M) Warrior, Sokhár lv 80 (H/M) Death Knight, Beset lv 70 (NE/F) Druid, Bastet lv 70 (NE/F) Rogue, Mentu lv 70 (Dr/M) Shaman
-=[dMw]=-Bastet (CSS) / -=[dMw]=-Niwa (BF2) / -=dMw=- Sokhar (BF2142)
-=[dMw]=- MVP Award Holder (June 2006) Winning team -=[dMw]=- Christmas Crunch (2008)