Akall's mail

[lunares]

This is what i got from akall.
 
I'm writing to you cause for the second time this evening loot was been given to someone with less dkp then me.
 
I know there is a rule that says that a member will be able to access to T2 loot only if he/she has 4/8th of T1 to avoid dkp hoarding. But i also know that rules are guidelines that helps officers to make decisions and not dogmas that need to be followed by letter by letter
 
For the 2nd time this rule has been applied to me as stating that i'm hoarding dkps to pass in fromt of the other druids.....
 
I feel i have prooved more then once to the guild and to the officers to be a fair player and ask you and your colleagues to look once more to that rule: although it has the right foundations is developed in way that some ppl get penalised rather then safeguarded.
 
Thanks.
 
Best regards
 
Akall
 
This is the copied letter akall has sended me.
As for my opinion on this i would like to have some more info on this. vargen you where mentioning that some other loot from MC was better then the cenarion set. Which items?. Cause if his current gear is better then tier 1 i can see his point, but even then everyone spend dkp there for their tier 1 so why shouldnt he. If we decide he can get loot from BWL i would suggest to give him a dkp penalty which would be the equivalent of 2 tier 1 so he "spend"dkp for 4 (not the best method but it makes the dkp go down to a lvl he should have spended).
Just my opinion.
 
Lunares

[KreuZ]

As far as I know the rule isn't just Tier1 set but all armor from MC, since if it applied to only Tier1 set in MC, I would actually not be able to get BWL items right now.

[Padding]

As far as I know the rule isn't just Tier1 set but all armor from MC, since if it applied to only Tier1 set in MC, I would actually not be able to get BWL items right now

Grats TL on all new mage items in BWL before kreuz :devil:

[Bastet]

We said Tier 1, cause its eazyer to test, cause what is T1 equiv?  then you can get in discussions about the ZG items, etc. (They try all the time)
So kreuz i think you need to buy an arcanist item tonight :narnar:

[TeaLeaf]

What we need to be real careful to avoid is that we end up with people hoarding ZG/AQ20 items and *not8 buying any MC items, this stockpiling DKP for BWL.  There is a wierd logic to enforcing a spend in MC.  I'm still thinking about thew above, but this is one of those areas where I get a general impression of 'the greater good is for the Guild not the person'.

TL.

[Vargen]

Well, actually I think Akall has better gear then Tier 1 on most slots. We are beginning to se the downside of this rule as people can more easily get epic quality loot now. The rule was put in place to stop ppl from going from greens or tier 0 straight to tier 2 before the ones that worked for their tier 1 items and in essence made BWL possible in the first place.
 
To give you a quick fill in on Akall's gear.
 
He has:
Cenarion Vestments
Salamander Scale Pants
Wild Growth Spaulders
Haruspex's Garb (ZG set)
 
If you put this up against the cenarion bits of the same slots, the tier 1 will loose by a mile.
 
Cenarion Raiment
 
To use myself as an example, I used allmost the same gear as him between getting a full tier 1 and switching to tier 2. I had the full cenarion set, but used the ZG set because of the healing stats as well as the shoulders and leggings. Only really using some Cenarion for extra fireresist on Ragnaros, Vael and Firemaw.
 
I would use these items for extra fire res, nothing more.
Cenarion Helm
Cenarion Vestments
Salamander Scale Pants
 
To get rid of any promblems with loot rules and such I would like to see this rule gone and maybe only have a priority for full memebrs over initiates for loot rule in stead. But there shouldn't really be any problem since not many are on negative DKP anyways. We will soon be ending our expeditions to MC and continuing on in AQ. I don't really think there will be a similar problem there as the items are pretty much the same.

[Padding]

To get rid of any promblems with loot rules and such I would like to see this rule gone and maybe only have a priority for full memebrs over initiates for loot rule in stead. But there shouldn't really be any problem since not many are on negative DKP anyways. We will soon be ending our expeditions to MC and continuing on in AQ. I don't really think there will be a similar problem there as the items are pretty much the same.

Just remember that it might put some people DKP-wise over some others who actually took the items since they where told to. (like luthor)
 
Then Akall would get some items before BoB since he might have more DKP becoz he didnt get the -dkp from taking the 4-6 Tier items
 
I dont mind what rule you want to use, just wanted to point that out

[Bastet]

Id stick w/ this rule untill the time we stop MC alltogether.

[KreuZ]

I remember quite well how I argued that the rule should be Tier1 Armor and not Tier1 set(Which would mean all MC items because it's not just the sets that are tier...) and it was agreed because if not it's unfair for the classes that like to mix items and not go for the sets.

[Vargen]

He has gone to some leangths to get a good epic equip. It's not like Luthor that expected to go straight from Devout to trancendance.

[lunares]

Even if he did vargen, which i believe then what would happen if we "bend" the rules for him. Prolly more will follow. This does not have to be a bad thing but the lewt whores will also try and you need to look at every profile, though i think every officers has a good idea what gear his class has.
 
Lunares

[Vargen]

Well, we can look at them case by case as it is not many it concerns. It will be out of the world as soon as we stop MC anyways.

[KreuZ]

According to what you said Vargen, he already has 3 Tier1 armor pieces so he would just need 1 more to be able to get BWL items.

[TeaLeaf]

To get rid of any promblems with loot rules and such I would like to see this rule gone and maybe only have a priority for full memebrs over initiates for loot rule in stead.

The rule was mainly put into place to stop people who had joined RG1 (and RG2 members raiding with RG1) from jumping from their Blue or T0.5 direct to T2 using hoarded DKP.  With RG1 becoming independent of RG2 then these problems start to subside and therefore the pressure and need for such a rule lessens.  

I agree with Vargen in that once RG1 stops MC then the rule could be dropped as we would not be going there to allow them to abtain the items we require.  I also like the idea of Member getting priority over Initiate.

For Akall, I am content that we use common sense here and equate T1 set items to T1 items.  I would specifically exclude any non-MC drop here as I would not want people speccing their character from ZG and AQ20 to hoard DKP for T2  items.  Akall is a good example of this, he has a lot of 'free' ZG/AQ and 'other' no-cost items.

If T1 set = T1 MC equivalent I you can then look at Akall he has 3 T1 items.  Whilst we raid MC he needs one more.  If he had turned up last night then he might have had the chance of getting one more and qualifying for T2.

Conclusion:
We put the rule in place to stop specific things.  Unless we want to cause a bunch of trouble with others whom we have forced to buy items I believe we should stick to our guns and say he needs one more item from MC.  Looking at his gear, I find it difficult to believe that most people would not see the upgrade to Cenarion Gloves an upgrade.  Yes he loses +7 healing, but damn it he gains a huge amount in additional stats over the blue item he currently wears.

No rule is perfect, but the rule is there to enforce a benefit for the raid and this will inevitably sometimes mean a disadvantage to the occassional individual.  Akall is unlucky, but he needs one more item imo.

Aside 1:
RG2 may wish to keep this rule for the time being as they will now be exposed to the same problem that we intially experienced.  We all know that the same problems exist within RG2 and we probably all have a good idea of which members are doing it!

Aside 2:
As an aside, the single run of the week that provides the Gold buy materials for pots and keep the production of Flasks and FR pots ticking over for both raid groups is the Molten Core run.  When we stop doing Molten Core we need something else in place to keep generating gold, although we might be lucky and find that RG2 MC runs give us what we need.

Sorry for the length of the post.

TL.

[Bastet]

given the fact that RG2 is gonne start BWL themselfs soon we cant reley on that source of income, they should just about make enough to keep themselfs supplyed. So ftw id say we need to keep doing MC