Regarding some issues.

Neff · July 20, 2006, 10:49:04 PM

First off , this is Toffe speaking. His account on theese forums is borked, and im just using neff's account.

What im angry at, actually ****ed off by, is the way the guild has , i dont know, become. I joined a week after neff, and i've been here from the start. I Started on Sokk, a rogue i quickly got tired off, started again, cant remember when, on my warrior , Toffe. I just recently hit 60, as maybe some of you may have recognised. I thought, this is when i get attuned to Mc/bwl/ony.
I am attuned to Ony/BWl, bwl part was alot of help from Siff. who ported me into the instance after they've killed Drakkisath.

The thing is, i dont get _any_ help, nor can people who i've "known" in the guild for a long time, cant even be arsed to say hello to me. It would be fine , if it only happened during an raid or something, but i never get any greetings, pity thing for you, lack of respect for me,i mean, i've been in the guild longer than 70% of "you". I've tried to be helpfull, when people ask me, i always show up, i never say no.

And when 20 people are standing in if, not doing anything, you could help a fella out in an UBRS f.ex! It would've been okay, if you atleats said you couldn't, but none of you were flagged afk.

All in All, i dont like how this guild has become, I wondered how it happened , the reason i joined this guild where because of my IRL mates were here,
people always helped out needing guildies,Lots of talk, etc you all know how it was, but suddenly its all gone, and sorry to say, I feel ****ed on, ive talked to a few others and they feel the same.(not going to say any names)But Im Tired of it, so Im saying it how im experiencing it... I know you're busy with raiding and all, but that brings me back to the 20ppl not afk just standing in IF.

I was just about to /gquit, but neff told me of the unwritten rule, dont quit before you've talked about it. This isnt the sog i joined for , isnt it a year soon?

Lucian · July 21, 2006, 12:01:07 AM

I think its a symptom of a wider problem: complacency within the guild. It affecting RG1 especially.

To be honest mate, I don't know you - you might have been there since I was in the guild, but I don't remember playing with you or chatting to you. The guild has become a big place, and with that people have accumulated circles of friends.

Maybe you've been passed by (Toff = 58 or something?) and if so then work hard and you'll soon be part of it again.

In the mean time, I have done my share of helping - more jailbreaks than I can count jump into my head, and if I prefer to play quietly with Tindra or Applecore or something, please don't hold it against me!

EDIT: I also meant to add, but as usual forgot, to mention that I have haad the same problems recently. I want to go to UBRS for Bobby's LF set, but have rarely managed more than two or three guildies. Keep trying

You will get there eventually - and if you want more UBRS, then let me know.

Neff · July 21, 2006, 12:27:37 AM

QuoteMaybe you've been passed by (Toff = 58 or something?) and if so then work hard and you'll soon be part of it again.

It is toff, he changed his name a bit

Edit, but its not only instance helping, just that people dont say hello to eachother anymore, happened to me some times too. (just an example

Deadlyspirit · July 21, 2006, 12:47:55 AM

Hmm really sry to hear, that ppl feel that way.

I must say, I offen stand in IF doing nothing and no I dont have afk tag as I normaly is in BG queue and if invite comes up while in AFK mode you will be skipped.

What goes for me. I am raiding like 6-7 nights a week and do not have much more time for the other instances anymore sry.

Neff · July 21, 2006, 12:56:36 AM

Good to hear responses, keep 'em coming!
And its just not the instances, its everything in the post, and he is very annoyed.

DarkAngel · July 21, 2006, 01:09:44 AM

Im sorry that you do feel that way i try to be kind to all players and help them out expecially those in my guilds.

And i must admit i do often sit in IF, wihle i read the forums.
But if someone needs a hand doing something and i can spare the time i have no problem helping out.

As now we have 2 raid groups raiding on 4 days a week a lot of players are busy just raiding and therfor may not always want to do 5 man runs. If you need a run and no one on the day can help, then make a post on the forum to see if anyone can help you say later that day?

KreuZ · July 21, 2006, 02:34:26 AM

Quote from: NeffAll in All, i dont like how this guild has become, I wondered how it happened , the reason i joined this guild where because of my IRL mates were here,
people always helped out needing guildies,Lots of talk, etc you all know how it was, but suddenly its all gone, and sorry to say, I feel ****ed on, ive talked to a few others and they feel the same.(not going to say any names)But Im Tired of it, so Im saying it how im experiencing it... I know you're busy with raiding and all, but that brings me back to the 20ppl not afk just standing in IF.

Basicly I'd just like to say that the guild has always been the way it is. There have perhaps been a few minor changes but not much. Getting help in SoG has always been a problem except in the earlier days when helping out was helping with 1 quest for example. People just seem to not have time anymore or can't be bothered to do it. I myself haven't been very helpfull but you have to understand how many people some have helped throughout the game(Even though I shouldn't be using that as an excuse).

As far as I know, the guild chat has just increased, both in good, bad and also some very freaky ways. :tongue:

Getting hello's when you log on is something that I have never noticed anyone getting except while half the people online are raiding and even then you get a few.

And lastly I'd just like to say that please don't pull the "I've been here longer then you" card, because it shouldn't really matter. I've been here longer then Teaelle for example but he's still done much more in the guild then me probably.

Hope it all works out for you but if not I'll still be seeing you IRL. :biggrin:

Padding · July 21, 2006, 08:16:06 AM

I have to agree with Kreuz (ZOMG) the guild is pretty much what it always has been. Its not that people are not helping but you cant expect to log on and say who wants to help me in UBRS, because most people have a goal in the game and something they are playing to do, and standing around in IF does certainly not mean they are free to help. Personally i've always thought it a part of the game, that i should do PUGS to get the stuff i want. You cant rely on guildies being there for you all the time, and doing a lot of PUGS is part of the gameplay, and what you need to do to get the stuff you want.

Like deadly also says, lots of the people here are already raiding 6-7 nights in a row and personally i dont have the mentally surplus to spend 2-3 hours in UBRS if i dont have a specific purpose there. That doesnt mean that i wouldnt help people who asked, but saying that noone is helpful is not correct. I know for a fact that i helped a lot of people getting Onyxia attuned, and lots of other people helped doing lots of Baron 45 minutes run, but to ask people if they want to help in UBRS and not getting help, exceeds your expectations to what people are willing to do.

And btw, i seem to remember that you had problems with a person from another guild ninja'ing some items from you and you couldnt get it back?

Vargen, me and some other people have worked our ass of to get that person to pay the stuff back to you, and allthough you might not have gotten it all, we actually made him give things back to you, and you might just get it all in the long run.

Is that the thanks then that you make a post saying the whole guild is not helpful, now that i would call lack of gratitude.

I think you should reconsider what you are trying to say with this post Toff, and see if you final conclusion isnt somewhat different

TeaLeaf · July 21, 2006, 08:54:25 AM

Off Topic:
Toffe, first off, what's wrong with the forum account - we need to get it running again.

Have you tried the recover password facility? What was the outcome. Info plz and we'll get it fixed.

Back on topic:
I am levelling my Priest at the moment and geenrally I find help available from other Guidlies either on their mains or their alts. What I do recognise is that if you are trying to form a Guild UBRS run etc on a raid night (say liek last night) then the bulk of our members are going to be in a 40 man raid and therefore nun available to help. We run raids every single night of the week, so this might be a problem to you at the time you log on. If however you log on at a non-raid time then far more help is available. Yesterday I did a Guild run and 2 partial Guild PUGs where I had the company of Guildies in the party too.

If you /gquit it solves nothing. Yes raiders know each other better than non-raiders, but you're L60 - go sign up for some ZG and AQ raids and get to know people. Use TS - talk to them - it's a damn sight easier to group up within the Guild if you use the Teamspeak facilities that are there - it also makes fo rmuch better parties!

Finally, if you do /gquit and find a new Guidl then you will find exactly the same problems exist elsewhere. It's not that people are deliberately excluding you but that they do have their own agenda or goals. They might be about to go out (hence not wanting to take on a 90min UBRS run) or they might be grinding rep for get a rep-bvased recipe or needed item, etc. There are many reasons and these reasons are common across all Guilds and all players, not just SoG.

My 2 cents: join TS, join AQ/ZG and then I think by association you will find it much easier to group. I have always found people willing to help, you just have to ask them personally at the right time for them - so whisper people direct if you can, it's so much more personal and friendly.

TL.

StrontiumDog · July 21, 2006, 10:17:30 AM

I am also guilty of sitting in IF after joining a BG and then tabbing to watch a movie or tv show. There is nothing more boring that waiting an hour for a BG to proc. That said if im at the keyboard and someone asks me to help, and I have the time, I will do my best.

Umbra · July 21, 2006, 11:53:08 AM

True stront, the araj's multi runs we did were awesome.

basically just being online does not mean you will be there for long, or paying attention or indeed have the attention span or motivation to do an instance run.

Quite often I go online jsut to say hello and see what's happening, check mail etc, being online for 5-10 or even 30 mins does not mean you can do an hour and a half instance run, also, sometimes I'm in IF after a raid, and REALLY not up for another one.

Sometimes someone can say in gchat 'hey who's up for helping me in some quest' and you'll get loads of replies, sometimes you don't. But you can't hassle people about it, they aren't NPC's who wait around with the sole purpose of helping people out. Real people have real lives and sometimes can't commit to a certain amount of time or concentration.

I know alot of other guilds are worse for the inter-guild help etc, ours isn't as bad as you think.

Something I get wary of with helping out, is the quest chains, as a full time working person, I value my spare time and weekends etc, and though I don;t mind helping out sometimes (it really does hinge on mood) it can get annoying in the followign two cases:
a) 'can lvl 60s run me thru instance x' where some relatively low level person wants an easy ride but won;t get the experience necessary for raiding.
b) 'oh can you help me on the next part too' where I lose my entire evening doing an instance that is dull, in order to run someone through a whole quest chain.

With repsect to chatting, there's ALWAYS chatting going on in guild, usually telling me i'm old

, but if you want to be talked to alot, you need to get involved, you can't just turn up, say hi, and then expect everyone to shower you with adulation and such. After i took a couple of months off last year and came back hardly anyone talked to me cos noone knew me, but with effort I regained the loudmouthed crude wench status.

And yes, I agree with Kreuz too, being in the guild for ages doesn't and shouldnt mean much, I've been in since waaaaay back in the mists of time, but I certainly haven't contributed as much as some relatively new people, I'm sorry to say, I haven't seen you around all that much, make yourself higher profile and people will chat to you more

so:

1) Don't get annoyed if people aren't always available/willing to help, you don;t know what they ARE doing so assuming they are free is rude, plus, being annoyed will make it less liekly people want to help later, be patient, keep trying.
2) Gratitude, I see alot of gchat with 'need help/party for x' but hardly ever ever any 'thanks for that run, it was great, i'll help out in return'.
3) Talk alot and join in and have a laugh and eventually it will become normal, it takes time, people need to really get to know your online personality. 'hi everyone' isn't really much of a conversation starter and in this heat people lack enthusiasm.
4) Contribution is important, not time spent, I 'try' and make alot of people laugh as much as possible, and will almost always have an opinion on stuff. This isn't the same as raid leading, but definitely makes people feel comfortable with you and willing to chat to you or ask you about something
5) alot of the cameraderie these days is on TS, try and be on there as much as poss and you'll find things improve

Edit: Just read TL's post and I think he said the same stuff, reading all posts FTW:P

Bastet · July 21, 2006, 12:16:22 PM

Umbra thats one epic post, TL is just rare :narnar:

Summery:
Ppl dont always have time to help, dont bust thier chops if they cant. And be sure to thank ppl when you do get help.

Vargen · July 21, 2006, 12:54:22 PM

I think I spend about an hour between each BG in IF just occationally pressing the spacebar so I won't be flagged AFK, due to auto-join mod doesn't work properly anymore. If I get autojoined while AFK, I get kicked out of BG(thanks for that blizz btw:thumbsdown: ). So I am usually running some tv series or a movie on top of wow, just pressing the spacebar. Great huh?

As for the hello's and bb's, it would be a pain if all 300 members were to say hi to eachother when they get online. Not even I get a cheering fest every time I log on. Well maybe sometimes when Neff wants something.

Helping on quests and on instace runs is also not verry interesting for most, and you probably won't get an answer from anyone unless you ask them by whisper. I have lost count how many attunemets runs I've helped out on and as for the high end instances, I've done so many runs to get stuff, for three chars of my own now, and I have even given up trying to get the stuff for myself. If I can't be arsed to go to UBRS to get myself an item, you can imagine how noticable a general "UBRS anyone?" in gchat will be to me. I get a headache just thinking about that place :frusty:

However I hope you will stay with us Toff, it is allways a shame to loose a memeber and not to mention a veteran of the guild. As TL said, you are not well known by the raiders. Those that are the closest in the guild are the ones raiding and chatting every day on TS. If you aren't raiding, then imo, you really don't get to know the side of the guild I love the most. It's not so much the raiding or the items. It's about the people and the conversation. Having fun and accomplishing things together.

StrontiumDog · July 21, 2006, 01:03:40 PM

Quote from: UmbraTrue stront, the araj's multi runs we did were awesome.

It was such a laugh..just wish I could remember more..damn that vokda!

Umbra · July 21, 2006, 02:36:49 PM

Yeah bastet, I tend to ramble about certain things, as I said, I always have an opinion. Stront, it was funny as hell when you came on next day and was like 'where did this money come from'? whne I gave you like 10g for repairs, after about 8 wipes on araj lol, nearly as funny as me, dajo, dalto, et. al. in DM.