Loot rules?

[Nefertem]

Ok.. I know that we are using the 'common sense' DKP system atm, and that we prolly won't be changing that, but I just wanted to hear want you guys would think of this:

Blackwing Lair.

--Razorgore the Untamed

Mantle of the Blackwing Cabal [1. Mage/Lock 2. Druid/Priest]
Gloves of Rapid Evolution [1. Priest 2. Druid]
Spineshatter [1. Warrior 2. Rogue 3. Paladin]
The Untamed Blade [1. Warrior 2. Paladin 3. Hunter]


--Vaelastrasz the Corrupt

Pendant of the Fallen Dragon [1. Priest/Druid/Paladin]
Helm of Endless Rage [1. Warrior 2. Paladin]
Dragonfang Blade [1. Rogue 2. Hunter]
Red Dragonscale Protector [1. Paladin]


--Broodlord Lashlayer

Black Brood Pauldrons [1. Paladin]
Bracers of Arcane Accuracy [1. Mage/Lock 2. Druid/Priest]
Maladath, Runed Blade of the Black Flight [1. Rogue 2. Warrior]
Heartstriker [1. Hunter 2. Rogue 3. Warrior]


--Firemaw

Legguards of the Fallen Crusader [1. Paladin 2. Warrior]
Black Ash Robe [1.Priest/Mage/Lock 2.Anyone]
Firemaw's Clutch [1. Mage/Lock 2. Priest/Druid]
Claw of the Black Drake [1. Rogue 2. Warrior]
Cloak of Firemaw [1. Rogue 2. Warrior]
Ring of Blackrock [1. Mage/Lock/Priest/Druid/Paladin]
Taut Dragonhide Belt [1. Rogue/Druid]
Rejuvenating Gem [1. Priest/Druid/Paladin]
Drake Talon Cleaver [1. Warrior 2. Paladin]
Shadow Wing Focus Staff [1. Mage/Lock/Priest/Druid]
Primalist's Linked Legguards [1. Shaman]
Drake Talon Pauldrons [1. Warrior 2. Paladin]


--Ebonroc

Drake Fang Talisman [1. Rogue/Hunter 2. Warrior]
Ebony Flame Gloves [1. Warlock 2. Priest]
Malfurions Blessed Bulwark [1. Druid 2. Warrior/Rogue]
Rejuvenating Gem [1. Priest/Druid/Paladin]
Band of Forced Concentration [1. Mage/Lock 2. Priest/druid/paladin]
Dragonbreath Hand Cannon [1. Hunter 2. Rogue 3. Warrior]
Drake Talon Cleaver [1. Warrior 2. Paladin]
Taut Dragonhide Belt [1. Rogue/Druid]
Shadow Wing Focus Staff [1. Mage/Lock/Priest/Druid]
Drake Talon Pauldrons [1. Warrior 2. Paladin]
Ring of Blackrock [1. Mage/Lock/Priest/Druid/Paladin]


--Flamegor

Circle of Applied Force [1. Rogue/Hunter 2. Warrior/Paladin]
Emberweave Leggings [1. Hunter]
Shroud of Pure Thought [1. Priest/Druid/Paladin]
Styleen's Impending Scarab [1. Warrior]
Rejuvenating Gem [1. Priest/Druid/Paladin]
Herald of Woe [1. Paladin 2. Druid]
Dragon's Touch [1. Mage/lock 2. Priest]
Shadow Wing Focus Staff [1. Mage/Lock/Priest/Druid]
Drake Talon Pauldrons [1. Warrior 2. Paladin]
Drake Talon Cleaver [1. Warrior 2. Paladin]
Taut Dragonhide Belt [1. Rogue/Druid]
Ring of Blackrock [1. Mage/Lock/Priest/Druid/Paladin]


--Chromaggus

Taut Dragonhide Gloves [1. Druid 2. Paladin]
Taut Dragonhide Shoulderpads [1. Rogue/Druid]
Empowered Leggings [1. Priest 2. Druid/Paladin]
Elementium Threaded Cloak [1. Warrior 2. Druid]
Chromatic Boots [1. Warrior 2. Paladin]
Angelista's Grasp [1. Mage/Lock 2. Priest/Druid/Paladin]
Shimmering Geta [1. Priest 2. Paladin/Druid]
Ashjre'tul, Crossbow of Smiting [1. Hunter]
Girdle of the Fallen Crusader [1. Paladin 2. Warrior]
Chromatically Tempered Sword [1. Rogue 2. Hunter/warrior]
Elementium Reinforced Bulwark [1. Warrior]
Claw of Chromaggus [1. Mage/Lock 2. Druid/Priest]
Primalist Linked Waistguard [1. Shaman 2. Paladin]


--Nefarian

Head of Nefarian [1. All]
Prestor's Talisman of Connivery [1. Rogue/Hunter 2. Warrior]
Therazanes Link [1. Hunter 2. Paladin]
Cloak of the Broodlord [1. Mage/Lock 2. Druid/Priest/Paladin]
Staff of the Shadow Flame [1. Mage/Lock 2.Priest/Druid]
Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood [1. Warrior 2. Paladin 3. Hunter]
Crul'shoruk, Egde of Chaos [1. Hunter 2. Warrior]
Archimtiros' Ring of Reckoning [1. Warrior/Rogue/Hunter]
Pure Elementium Band [1. Priest/Druid/Paladin]
Boots of the Shadow Flame [1. Rogue 2. Hunter]
Neltharion's Tear [1. Mage/Lock 2. Druid/Piest/Paladin]
Lok'amir il Romathis [1. Priest/Paladin/Druid]
Mish'undare, Circlet of the Mind Flayer [1. Mage/Lock 2.Priest]



Now this is just an example and I think it looks rather neat, but thats just my 2 cents (and Im keeping these, Padding :tongue:)Id like to hear you guys oppinions.. I can do without flaming thanks, and I certain most of you are able to tell your oppinions without such. :blush: (I've just become a bit scared of letting my oppinions in the open lately, because some discussions have been quite, ehm, impetuous and intense, but decided to give this one a try.) :smile:

[Sinap]

Looks fine to me, however, shouldnt need to do this if people used common sense

[Adularena]

I say that ppl should get what they want. If not class specific, or what obviously will benefit the spesific class thus the raid, then give it to the person with the most DKP! Those are credits you earned, and you should get anything you want...eventually.
 
Dont be a dumbass, be a smartass! (in general, not to topic starter)

[Soulbringerx]

And in the Case on the CTS going To a hunter I must ask what weapons do u have? and what weapons do the hunter have? As far as i know the sword upgraded a LvL 52 Blue axe, and i think its highly unlikely that u have a sword/dagger that are lower!:whistle: Plz see the Benefits for the Raid here....
 
But thats not the real issue i can go on about How Guns/bows goes to Rogues for just a few more Agipoints but thats history now and no Hunter has left the guild for it!!!!
 
I agree on the Auction thingy but its hard to implement i think it will take loads of time to distribute loot! but its a good solution perhaps?!
 
I still think that COMMON SENCE combined with the BOBthingy tell ur story to the ML about Upgrades/Passing thats a good one:clap:
 
Best Regards Rata:flirty:

I believe that hunter was me and i don't think you had been looking at my weapons before you where thinking of leaving guild with a mad face. And about the dkp earned the guy's that have such high amounts of dkp did actualy work for it and thus waited too all this time to get these items.

[Bastet]

Now the following aint an attack on any1, but rather why i think a hunter shouldnt go for CTS.
 
CTS vs Boneslicing hatchet
14 str, 14 agi, 7 stam vs 13 agi, 5 stam
 
This improvement will yield the hunter 20 hp, 2 RAP and 14 MAP, now since hunters always say they mostly range i wonder if the 2 ranged attack power is worth keeping this from a melee class.

[TeaLeaf]

I'd take the KISS route.  If someone else has done the work already then use it.  Read it here.

The *very* important thing to note here is that it does not take a simplistic "you're a tank" or "you're a pallie" route, it sets out different categories so that you can allocate priority accordingly.  

You're a warrior?  What type of warrior?
You're a druid?  What type of druid?
You're a pallie?  What type of pallie?

That determines your loot priority.  The only thing not covered is shadow priest which is not a problem in our raids as we do not carry shadow priests in RG1 - we have enough DPS classes!

I won't take credit for the link, thank Tanales who post it to us Officers a while back.  It's a nice informative link though.

TL.

[Padding]

That determines your loot priority. The only thing not covered is shadow priest which is not a problem in our raids as we do not carry shadow priests in RG1 - we have enough DPS classes!

I actually think this is worth a discussion since most other classes are allowed to play whatever they feel like.
 
Paladins - Holy / Retribution
Druids - Resto / Feral
Warriors - Prot / Fury
 
Its not that i dont like priests to heal to their max abilites, im a healadin myself, but it raises the qeustion if others are allowed to choose talents for themselves... why arent priests?
 
Should you choose to contribute to this discussion, please keep it at a serious level

[TeaLeaf]

Priests are free to choose - the question I would ask is which class is to replace that healer?  The answer to that lies with the Field Marshalls as they make the decisions.  A priest can choose shadow though but then then they are ocmpared to other DPS classes and have to fight for a place in the raid alongside those DPS classes.  But the competition for places amongst DPS classes is *far* greater than for healing places if you are a priest.  

SoG is also a little unusual in that we do not generally mandate how you play - but we (the Field Marshalls) reserve the right to and have from time to time used that power.  Common sense needs to prevail - what will work for the raid.  And that is where it all comes tumbling down alongside the common sense supposedly employed by people in this loot rules thread :sad:  Some people want to be uber PVP or solo *and* hold down a spot in a highest level PVE raid group.  The two different aims are not always completely compatible and that's where the problems come.

TL.

[Sandrion]

That list looks good to me Nefertem.
 
I do have on comment on it though. What kind of spec you have is also of influence. Although I doubt the main looter can keep track of who got which spec.
 
This has an effect on the taut dragonhide pieces for example. Since their stats (high armor + stamina + AP (or strength)) make it best suited for feral druids, just like malfurion's blessed bulwark. It should go to feral druids first imo, if they want it. Also because bloodfang is within easy reach for the rouges. Restro and balance druids on the other hand should pass on it for rouges. Although I'm not sure why a rouge would prefer this over Bloodfang.
 
I would also change the Drake Fang Talisman's priority: [1. Fury Warrior/Rogue 2. Hunter 3. Tanks (Warrior/Feral Druid)]. +hit% is most important for dual wielding classes, because of the large miss chance of their off-hand weapon. But it is also one of the best tanking trinkets in the game. There isn't much +hit% on tanking gear and if you miss you won't cause any threat. (This is even more noticable for druid tanks, because they don't have instant threat abilities). Naturally the 1% dodge is also very nice for tanks.
 
 
And regarding being free to spec the way you like:
You can, as long as you keep the raid group's best interest in mind. If everyone gets a PvP spec it would be a bit harder to raid effectively :tongue: . I, for example, wanted to be feral, 11/35/5 is best for that; but I choice to go 30/21 instead, because people still expect me to heal during raids. But then again, skill > gear > spec.

[StrontiumDog]

As I am about to goto work I havn't had time to read the whole thread, so accept my apologies if this has been covered already...

Now I know people want grear of all sorts and sizes, however have we considered looking at what people need to help the raid rather than just getting loot for the sake of it.

For example... Player A gets an item that is only slightly better than what he is replacing it with. (lets say the item had +60 healing/damage and the new one has +70) Where as If Player B had been given first refusal because his similar item was only +20 then the raid would be gaining +50 dps rather than +10.

Now I know people would not be happy with that as everyone wants phat lewt, however I for one would be more than happy to pass on an item if it would be beneficial to the raid group itself.

Just wondering what you guys think?

[TeaLeaf]

Sandrion, the link I posted agrees with most of what you summarised.  I'm not sure if you saw it.

TL.

[ratatosk]

Now the following aint an attack on any1, but rather why i think a hunter shouldnt go for CTS.

CTS vs Boneslicing hatchet
14 str, 14 agi, 7 stam vs 13 agi, 5 stam

This improvement will yield the hunter 20 hp, 2 RAP and 14 MAP, now since hunters always say they mostly range i wonder if the 2 ranged attack power is worth keeping this from a melee class.

I wont Attack anyone either:whistle:
 
But Just reminding that Dragonbreath HC/Heartstriker went to a Rogue/War on equal terms! ppl wanted to upgrade a few Agi points etc!
So plz ppl Use common Sence otherwise it will soon be a DKP loot revenge war outthere!
 
So there have been similar probs before.....and it SUX:thumbsdown:

[Bastet]

just to decide when what class becomes dps or so then. Cause ppl like marduk arent full holy, but still are some of our main healers.

[Nefertem]

Nice link TL. Saw it earlier when I was farming NR-gear, but forgot about it :happy:


Now.. I know that there are flaws with the class-priority, aswell as there are flaws with the current system we have and all other loot-systems..
To use common sense sounds like a great system, but what we have to come to terms with is, that we are 40 different people in the raid, and that many of us have a different way of looking at things. Common sense can varie a lot from person to person imo, and as Ratatosk said, if we don't watch out it might turn into some kind of 'loot-war' between ppl.
Im not saying that Im any better, or that the class-priority system which I think I prefer, is the best. No matter what DKP-system we use, there will always be someone who isn't satisfied, and this thread alongside with some of the other loot-discussions there have been are fine examples for that.
It is like creating an Utopia. It is rather impossible as we are all different.

To get this system or another system to work, we just have to realise that we can't always get it our way, and if we just cooperate and stop discussing and flaming each other for what we think is flaws, we will eventually get the stuff we want. I know that I got a lot of stuff from BWL that I want and that I can be a pain in the arse just before a boss, but I've realised myself, that.. it doesn't really matter.. I was so eager to get something from BWL in the beginning that I think I was close to **** someone of.

So even though I am a bigger fan of the class-priority I have accepted the system we use now, and Im hoping that the ones who haven't done so yet, will soon do so. Because then we will be closer to having a good system..

Lets all join together in a big circle around a fire or somit, hold hands and sing something hippi-ish and all be friends and agree to disagree and just do BWL for the original reasons.. Have fun :flirty:


EDIT: geez.. that was a lot of stuff that Im not sure gives any sense.. but.. you know what I mean.. hopefully.. :unsure:

[Sandrion]

Sandrion, the link I posted agrees with most of what you summarised. I'm not sure if you saw it.
 
TL.

Yes, you're right TL; I didn't see the link. That site looks great btw :thumb: .