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[Adularena]

ok, you arent in trouble because you get healed.
In later instances, unnessecary healing takes much effort from the healers and sometimes the healing should only be given to ViP classes etc.
 
I did write Firelord, but think of it as much more general.
 
I dont know exactly what nuber on the dps meters noevra comes, but since I posted, I guess it is low.
 
the blade flurry gives those extra thousands of damages needed if you are to compete against the damagemetre champions, but unnessecary if you want to do more than average damage in raids.

[Vargen]

Vael is actually a good fight to compare DPS as rogues focus on DPS mainly.

I know, I have 1200DPS on Vael, that was one-thousand-two-hundred. What did you have again?

But on topic, Adularena really has some epic info here, and believe me he knows what he is doing. Allthough Bastet has afair point; I would really like to know how the hell Keisuke does the ammount of DPS he does.

The fistweapons you use, aren´t they the ZG set? Embrace of the Primal Gods or whatever it´s called. They aren´t that bad I thought?

[noevra]

yeah got them

but use the main hand one and the brutalty blade for the crit bonus now a day ore i put in the dagger for the speeed. its the way i feel.

besites the damages i do is kinde down because i probely where a dreadmist head in mc a lot. and thent to take of my pents to show of my .....:g: sould that coses the dps lose?:doh:

[Nefrion]

Vargen you should know that you cannot compare rogue dps and dr00d dps on this fight.
 
But rogues between is possible as everyone is doing max dps.
 
And yeah you are probably much better than everyone Vargen. No doubt about that but what does that comment contribute to this topic?

[Sandrion]

And yeah you are probably much better than everyone Vargen. No doubt about that but what does that comment contribute to this topic?

Nah, not just Vargen. Druids just plain rock at everything; why even have other classes? All you need is Dr00ds :norty: .
 
Any reasonably geared druid should get near 1000DPS on Vael, maybe we should hand out bandages to the rouges and let them heal instead :narnar: .
 
 
But seriously, I'd like to see Keisuke's comments in here as well. I've seen him play a couple of time and he does some serious damage indeed.

[Adularena]

but use the main hand one and the brutalty blade for the crit bonus now a day ore i put in the dagger for the speeed. its the way i feel.
 

Well, You dont want to use a fist weapon if you are aiming for damage.
You use alot of sinister strikes, thats cool. But since a sinister strike uses 40 energy regardless if the weapon damage is low or high, I`d recommend you to get a slower wepon in your main hand.
 
1 handed maces that can be obtained outside of raids:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=13006
 
1 handed sword:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=2244
 
What is in common for these weapons is their top en damage of 149.
The higher top end damage, the beter crits on your Sinister Strikes you can get. Also, I think that with using a 1 handed sword/mace you get more attackspeed Attackpower bonus with each hit.
 
Once you get your fingers in weapons inside MC, OL BWL etc, you can see the top damage done by 1 handed wepons (not daggers) go over 200 I think. THEN! sword spec will start to pay off.
 
Also! when it comes to Combat sword build. Menedil used a spec with Haemmorage. What HEMO does is that it gives you really fast combopoint generation. The HEMO costs 35 energy (I think) and does a little less damage than SS.
 
ANyways, what I think is the most important about being a rogue is to be the spec that you like to play, use the weapons you think a rogue should use and not try to be a fighter but a coward.

[Keisuke]

Well. . . .i think my dps is just cus i like playing my spec, it aint the best for raids i must say :smile:
 
well, its more of a pvp spec, but thats the way i like about it, fast combo points and such. . i probably would respec to something better to see "max" damage, like more of a combat spec.
 
Ain't much to doing alot of damage really, 100% concentration comes the best damage :smile:

[Bastet]

Vargen starfire when burning dont count as doing dps. :boxing:
 
i can get 1100 dps measured over the entire fight :narnar:

[noevra]

Well, You dont want to use a fist weapon if you are aiming for damage.
You use alot of sinister strikes, thats cool. But since a sinister strike uses 40 energy regardless if the weapon damage is low or high, I`d recommend you to get a slower wepon in your main hand.
 
lot of bla bla

if i dont use a fist wapon i lose 5% crit chance. no beating that with a swort ore a mace

[Bastet]

swords get 5% chance to get a free swing. not sure, i think it slightly favors swords.

[Vargen]

Vargen you should know that you cannot compare rogue dps and dr00d dps on this fight.
 
But rogues between is possible as everyone is doing max dps.
 
And yeah you are probably much better than everyone Vargen. No doubt about that but what does that comment contribute to this topic?

It was just ment to point out that Vael is not a viable fight to messure DPS. You have much higher energy regain rate, and that favours certain specs more then others. Just pointing out that Vael is special due to the buff you get. You are much better off messuring dps at any other normal single target boss.

[JanuZ]

First of most of my knowledge with the rogue class in PvE comes from EJ forums though i have played my rogue in alot of 20man content.
Ok i will break this post down in alot of section for usefulness in raids

Talent Builds
Items
Tactics
Where to compare DPS



Talen Builds

Now there are clear 2 favorites for pure PvE damage those are the combat dagger spec and the combat sword spec. Maces aren't looked at to be that good because of the proc on Mace specialisation and Fist weapon's aren't looked at to be that good because of the lack of good fist weapons. But both builds can be built the same way as the combat sword build

Combat Dagger

This build can be varied alittle i am using 16/31/4 at the moment some like 15/31/5 and some 21/27/4. There might be a couple of more buils but in general you want 15 assasination and 25+ combat.

The most important talents
Malice                               crit is always good
Improved Slice and Dice       read tactics
Lethality                            extra damage is always good
Relentless Strike                 extra energy is always good

Improved Backstab              extra damage is always good
Precision                            if you hit more you do more damage
Dual Wield Specialisation       about a 10% increase to white damage( 5% total DPS)
Dagger Specialisation            crit always good
Blade Flurry                         fast attack is always good and if 2targets even better
Weapon Expertise                 read item section
Adrenaline Rush                    extra energy is always good

Opportunity                         extra damage is always good

Combat Swords

This build is almost always made 20/31/0

Malice                               crit is always good
Improved Slice and Dice       read tactics
Lethality                            extra damage is always good
Relentless Strike                 extra energy is always good

Precision                            if you hit more you do more damage
Dual Wield Specialisation       about a 10% increase to white damage( 5% total DPS)
Sword Specialisation            Free hits = more damge
Blade Flurry                        fast attack is always good and if 2targets even better
Weapon Expertise                read item section
Adrenaline Rush                   extra energy is always good

Opportunity                         extra damage is always good



Items

First of you want to get a mod called Theorycraft. It is a mod that shows you the average effects of your attacks and can tell you what would add most to your damage +10agi, +10str, 1%crit or 1%hit.
For Example i think at the moment 10agi will give my backstab 16AP, 10str 10AP, 1% crit 19AP and 1%hit 16AP.

You want +10skill bonus with your weapons for any fight against a lvl63 target(all bosses and some trash). Read my post in this section on +skill for more explanation

Easiest way to do this is by being human and having weapon expertise for swords
Weapon Expertise and Aged Coreleather Gloves for Daggers

Else it is the simple things like choose the weapon with biggest damage range in main hand.

Lastly i want to point you to a spreadsheet
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewtopic.php?id=6692


Tactics

Now the main thing is to always keep up SnD and not waste Energy and Combo Points.

On trash you want to start with 1combo point SnD if dagger or 2 if you are sword or you use adrenaline rush as a dagger rogue(start of each boss fight and when up on trash).

You want to get a combo point circle going for you for dagger rogue i think it is 1 SnD  3 SnD  5  SnD 5 SnD

Not sure but i think for a Sword rogue it is
2 SnD 5 SnD 3 Eviscerate 5 SnD

But the main thing is to keep SnD up at all times and use every combo point you get and not waste energy. Do a 3point eviscerate instead of hoping to get in a 4point eviscerate before the trash mob dies. If you are pulling fast  or running between mobs in a pull, be sure to get the SnD of the Mob you are killing instead of having to gather combo points on the next mob.

Use Vanish if you need to moderate yourself because of aggro and do it often(every boss fight and when you can on Trash if it is single target)

Lastly the most important thing. Don't die, you might waste 160energy on bandaging but you would waste thousands by dieing.


Where to compare DPS

I would recommend these places for DPS comparison

Full MC clear
Full BWL clear
Full AQ clear
Ebonroc and Flamegor
Golemagg
Lucifron
Kurinaxx
Hakkar
Patchwerk(the best place in the game but not in your region soon)

[Menedil]

fist spec isnt the best for boss fights as you cannot get 310 unarmed skill, so you will still get glancing blows.

combat specs are all about white dmg. aim for +hit items (NS shoudlers and gloves are infact better than BF equivalents for raid dps - but look crap, remember as a rogue your no.1 objective is to look awesome). 24% base miss rate for dual wield (or something) is a LOT of wasted dps. if you stick fist/sword you will have more combo points than you need to keep SnD up, so use evisc. if you ARE combat daggers (which is TERRIBLE for combo point generation), then snd like draz said, do a SnD when you get 1 muffin, then 3, then 5. 5pt improved SnD lasts for 30s. it takes 30 seconds to get enough energy to make 5 combo points with a non-SF backstab build. coincidence? i think not. use blade flurry whenever possible even if youre attacking only one mob. another 20% increased attack speed? yes plz!

[Menedil]

i just looked at your profile, i dont know whether its upto date or not but i guess not as it has some kinda combat daggers spec, but i'll give some cc anyway.

no improved slice and dice - you went for imp evisc anyway, but with combat daggers you probalby wont evisc, ever. whereas you should be SND'ing all the time.

relentless strikes-  this will make your SND cycles guaranteed cost 0 energy when you get to the 5 point SND stage.

an example would be -   http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/rogue/talents.html?005023104000000320305202055010020105000000000000000

the points in murder, endurance, imp sprint are just "filler" talents - they could go anywhere but theyre there just because tehres no where better to put them.

weapon expertise is the best talent in combat tree.

for fists then:
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/rogue/talents.html?205303105000000320015202005010523100000000000000000

may work for you.

[Luthor]

Impr. Kick, isnt that one better than Endurance?
 
It sounds nice to me. i mean Silence is somewhat usefull. over a faster Sprint ready? or am i mistaken?