Furydwarf - spec?

[TeaLeaf]

Problem or not.

Given the lack of healing I say yes.  What say you.  Luna can you post some detailed comments on his build plx as from what you said the other night I understand he is now full shadow.


TL.

[Vargen]

He has the same build as my priest allmost. For those of you that weren't on our pug to MC, I can inform you that I was tanking corehounds with 10k more aggro then the MT when I whent for DPS. On the other hand, he doesn't have the incresed manpool, incresed healing and so on. I belieave he had what 5 points in holy? But luna can probably be a bit more detailed.

[Padding]

No doubt about it. Speccs are important, but not as important as i used to think. Is it however *very* nice to have in places where we are learning, but when we have learned the boss fight, its not that important
 
Personally i think that people should use the specc they want as long as the overall speccs is what benefits the raid the most, like paladins with holy/retri and warriors with prot/fury

[TeaLeaf]

Personally i think that people should use the specc they want as long as the overall speccs is what benefits the raid the most

You kind of left that question unanswered.  Is it a spec that benefits the raid most?

TL.

[Padding]

Well no, but then you also need others to respec if the specc should be MAX raid PVE specced
 
Vargen is not resto f.ex. (which i would call best PVE)
Opticalrush just went full dps
Marduk and other paladins has talents in retri
 
and the list goes on
 
What im saying is that for some people the game is not interesting unless they can play their character as they like.
 
Does our raid suffer from that?
Yes probably, to some extent
 
Does it mean that we are not progressing because of that?
Well its hard to say really, and never proven 100%
 
This is not a yes/no matter for me, and im dubious as to how to answer. In places like Naxx its nice to have some shadow specced priests (as to what i hear) but usually its just nice to have max healing
 
I still think as long we are progressing in the way we want, people should have the specc they like. If we can somehow prove otherwise, i might see it differently

[lunares]

Padding first i agree with you ppl should not be forced to be a certain spec BUT other priests want to try that also and then you have a big problem.
let me try to go into some details.
 
Lets start with discipline The talents he has there are not to bad but he lacks a certain 1 which can be a raidkiller when you do not have it.
I am talking about silent resolve which gives maxxed out a 20% threat reduction which is needed at the start of an encounter (when in doubs ask vargen to use his insta kill button then you understand it:roflmao: .
For the rest discipline is pretty well done.
 
in holy he has only 2 points and that is the 70% chance to not be interrupted to cast healing spells, but he lacks all the talents that benefict a priest who heals in raids. Like less range on spells, longer casting time, higher mana cost (and plz note he does not have the larger mana pool talent in discipline)
 
Last we have shadow and i am not home in that tree but he has 35 points in there. And the only talent in a raid that might be usefull would be shadow weaving which is good on dps fights but bad for lock dps.....
 
So summarised.
He is full dps specced with 2 holy points so he has no healing beneficient talents nor he has the larger mana pool. Also which is even more important imo is that he doesnt have the 20% thread reduction and he has gotten agro at the start of boss encounters quite a few times.
 
I think that summs it up and i hope it is clear to the rest.
 
Padding about shadow spec in naxx raids it might be good to have 1 there but you will get a fight between priests about who can respec.
 
Lunares

[Padding]

Lets try this again:
 
Taken from anything's website
 
Druid Medium 31+ restoration, ns required. Never ever feral. 100NR unbuffed.
 
Hunter Low No BM specs. 100+ Nature resist150+ unbuffed NR (pre-aspect)
 
Mage Low +200(300 prefered) in dmg gear, no pvp specs, anything without arcane meditation and elemental precision is crap. NO elemental builds. Decent suit of +dmg. 3k hp unbuffed. 100+ unbuffed NR
 
Paladin Low Illumination 5. Consecrate.. Gear appropriate for healing, not dps. 100+ unbuffed NR.
 
Priest Medium No Shadow. -
 
Rogue Low 70FR unbuffed. 80NR unbuffed. No subtlety specs.140+ NR unbuffed
 
Warlock Low +200(300 prefered) in dmg gearDecent +dmg set. 100+ unbuffed NR (pre-pet).
 
Warrior Low No Talent Requirements. The warrior situation will be provided at the time of application and viable talent specs will be discussed then. 370+ defense required. Tank/DPS/Resistance Profiles required.200+ FR 150+ NR unbuffed
 
Now, the question is: do we WANT to do this?
 
Personally i would YES. Maybe not as restrictive as but just have a few pointers in what people should specc, should set the standard
 
I still think people can specc as they pretty much like, but we could agree on a basic rule set for people coming in, and for our own to abide
 
This is a VERY important subject, so i expect all officers to comment on this. There is too few sharing their thoughts on these things, and thats really sad to see.

[Tanales]

Id like to see some guidelines also, as we are moving towards bossfights that demand diffrent specs it will be helpfull.

[Bastet]

Well id say no, we are unique in the fact we let ppl play as they want. Allthough, we cannot do much about furydwarf, exactly due to that reason. Its a hard call, but exactly how many priests want to spec shadow?

[Vargen]

Atm I have a feral/resto build. I have 30 points in Feral and 21 points in Resto. Same goes for Xyco and Sandrion but they have some other points in feral then me. The rest of our druids have more Resto talents and maybe even some Balance stuff. As far as Druids vs Priests an "offspec" like mine is easier defendable since we aren't dependant on two talent trees to be a healer, while the priests need both Holy and Disc. You might even notice that I don't have the Subtley talent, but I have never had it either. When I was full Resto I had Rejuv and Regrowth instead, but I found that a Resto build with 70% critrate was hazardous in MC even :flirty:
 
My spec
 
 
But moving back to the shadowpriest build that was mentioned, not only is it not a PvE shadow build it is worse then Asheera's PvP build for aggro. That should at least give some of you a pointer to how much aggro he can generate. And there are a few of our priests that would like a shadow build. I don't know about Pent, but I know Luthor certainly would like to spec shadow. So when Fury specs shadow without even letting us know, you can imagine it is quite the slap in the face when Luthor has been wanting to for a long time.

[Padding]

I really think it comes down to whether we want to impose a rule set or not
 
You cant be mad at players for respeccing to what they like, when there is no rules. Common sense just dont apply, we all should know that by now
 
The more i think about it, we should definately make a slightly looser specc demand for our player. I dont see it as a bad thing, i see it as RG1 gearing up to be more professional. What things we want people to have, is what we decide, and therefore must abide by
 
This is now open for furhter discussion, but at some point this should end up in a yes/no for imposing rulesets on speccs

[Vargen]

I don't think we should have rules for spec, but maybe some guidlines for the role of a class in our raids, and let ppl spec whatever they want. However, we should ask that they contribute as much as possible.

[Bastet]

Maybe luna can point out what the bare nesesity for skills is to heal. like vargen said for druid (and paladin too) 20-21 points resto(holy) is enough. Marduk, Secohan, Vargen, Sandrion all have roughly the same.
 
So i am kinda curious is priest also has one of these "magic" numbers
 
Maybe something like: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priest/talents.html?50520013000000020000000000000000000000000000000

[TeaLeaf]

Jeebus was shadow too when he levelled and loved it, he wants shadow too, there are a number who would queue up for shadow - and frankly I'd rather have them holy/disc.  I know people like Sandrion get all 'PMT' about druids not just being healers, but priests in PVE raid spec are as close to pure healers as can be - if they change spec to DPS they don;t do as much DPS as DPS classes, run out of mana faster and pull more aggro.  I'd say we have raid guidelines and we ask Fury for a respec - I sure as heck am not putting myself in his healing zone....

TL.

[TeaLeaf]

Maybe something like: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priest/talents.html?50520013000000020000000000000000000000000000000 [/COLOR]

That link is to a half completed profile?

TL.