SoG & dMw

[TeaLeaf]

I do think we have acted too quickly here, we started this yesterday and there has been very little comment form others in the matter.  My last post mentioned that I thought we should not jump before we know where we are going to land and I think acting this quickly we have done precisely that.

Likewise we have no idea what we will replace things with just yet and so we have jumped, are now falling and do not have iether eyes to see on what will land or any idea of when we're going to land.

TL.

[Bastet]

I am disappointed you didnt even give us the time to work out some details, yes i stepped down as GM, but pending a chat agreed upon w/ gorion i was aiming to stay involved in SOG just not as a leader, since ill be raiding w/ Genesis. Gorion let me keep my alts in SOG and remain an officer pending further discussion today. However when i woke up i find that you allready apperantly took it upon yourselfs to kick SOG out.
 
You cant even wait for the small print to be figured out, i am deeply disapointed....

[OldBloke]

I am disappointed you didnt even give us the time to work out some details, yes i stepped down as GM, but pending a chat agreed upon w/ gorion i was aiming to stay involved in SOG just not as a leader, since ill be raiding w/ Genesis. Gorion let me keep my alts in SOG and remain an officer pending further discussion today. However when i woke up i find that you allready apperantly took it upon yourselfs to kick SOG out.
 
You cant even wait for the small print to be figured out, i am deeply disapointed....

Now hang on ... you informed us that, following a meeting of the SOG officers, you had decided to disband the guild (after announcing your own resignation from SOG beforehand). Therefore there is nothing to kick out. SOG, you said, had ceased to exist and the command would be entered to disband within a week. Make your mind up, mate.

[Penfold]

I'm not comfortable with this. When we agreed that SOG would be dMw's WoW guild it was because TL was instrumental in shaping SOG into a guild suitable to be deemed compatible with our ideals.

Also, as Whitey says:
 

I think it depends on who is left. If a large contingent of dMw are still active in SOG, then they have a place with us, if not then the members who still want to be part of the dMw WoW community, should have an area of the forum in the same way BF2/DMR and CS has.

Both these say exactly what I was trying to say when I started this thread (although I pussy-footed by way around the point) and they've managed to sum it more eloquently and in far fewer words!.
 
If it wasn't for TL then SoG would never have had a place here. Now that TL and the original members have left I think that it's time for dMw to conisder their continued support.
 
If TL and the other ORIGINAL instigators are setting up a new guild, and they want it to form part of dMw, then THAT should become the official dMw guild,
 
I started this thread by saying:
 
If that's not going to be the case and the majority of those original dMw'ers are going to join a new guild then, I guess, shouldn't SoG cease to be represented here and the new guild should?
 
and I stand by it.
 
My loyalty lies with those who have and continue to work hard for the Community as a whole - not for a fraction of it.
 
Sorry if that sounds harsh to the remaining SoG'ites, but this Community owes more of a debt of gratitude to TL and Co. than to the others.
 
I would feel real uncomfortable if a new dMw-style WoW guild is set up and is not able to be part of the Community because we have SoG.
 
If the decision is to split, I also think that we should do whatever we can to ameliorate such a change and make the process as painless for eveyone as possible - and it may be that is should be phased in over a short period of time.
 
PEN
 
PS. Oldie, can you please post the message you posted as SoG as us lesser mortals can't read it - thanks

[Penfold]

PPS. the above post is now pretty much out-of-date. (I wrote it earlier but only just posted it - there have now been several posts inbetween I see).

[OldBloke]

... PS. Oldie, can you please post the message you posted as SoG as us lesser mortals can't read it - thanks

Here's the message (now pulled as TL helps with Gorion's exit strategy).

I have followed closely the recent events regarding SOG. Bastet (as dMw's Section Admin for WoW) has kept me and the other admins up to date with events.

Yesterday he informed us that he would shortly be posting a message announcing his retirement from SOG. At the same time he told us that a meeting of the SOG officers was scheduled for later that day to discuss the future of SOG in light of the recent spate of resignations of SOG members.

The outcome of that meeting was a decision to disband SOG. That decision will be respected by the rest of dMw.

It's great that a member has emerged from the ranks and volunteered to keep SOG alive. All organisations are only as strong as the people running them and a willing, capable volunteer is worth their weight in gold.

However, I must inform all remaining SOG members that if SOG is to live on then it will do so outside of dMw.

We have seen some excellent cross-fertilisation of people and ideas since SOG became dMw's supported WoW guild and I know that both groups have made new friends as a result. We sincerely thank you for the contribution you've made to this community and hope you will all continue to do so in the future.

The SOG forum section will shortly be archived to be replaced by a generic WoW section. Should SOG find a new forum we will, if at all possible, aid in the transfer of the archived posts to their new home.

Good luck to all.

[TeaLeaf]

As an update (albeit a little late), the new management is in place at SOG.  

Bastet, myself and Tanales (all members of the previous SOG management) have been invited back into SOG and accepted places again as Field Marshalls with the brief to help the Guild remain on the straight and narrow, provide advise and the benefit of our experience to help the other officers run the Guild.  We took up these roles about a day or so after we left.

Oldie and I are currently discussing the different exit strategies and we hope to have concluded this shortly.

TL.

[TeaLeaf]

This information is provided to dMw Head & Section Admins only, it is not general knowledge.
To update and conclude this thread:

• Gorion (Guild Master of SOG) is aware that dMw wish to put a bit more distance between dMw & SOG.
• dMw official support notes on the forums have been removed
• Gandalf's estimates of the cost of supporting SOG bandwidth were approximately £8pm
• Gorion has been offered the choice to remain hosted here or to move hosting elsewhere.

• Gorion chose to remain with dMw.  He was very clear that he saw dMw as 'home' and wanted to remain.  He also wanted SOG members to still be welcome on dMw's other servers etc.
• dMw will therefore continue to provide forum hosting & TS facilities etc for SOG.
• We have no contractual agreement with SOG asking them to pay for services as this would entail us breaking our TS licencing agreement which we do not wish to do.
• We have just received from Gorion a personal and unrelated donation of £130 to the dMw Community Funds which is scarily similar to what we estimate it will cost us to host SOG over the next 12 months including a very generous allowance for Paypal charges.
• I do not believe Gorion has discussed this with his fellow SOG officers (I am still an officer in SOG and have seen nothing like this discussed), so I believe he has taken this decision and funded it himself.  This in itself shows a fair degree of commitment and matuirty.

So, SOG stay on the forums but you will note they have been 'de-prioritised' a fair bit within the WoW section.  All that shows now is the SOG section (Private) and a 'How to join SOG' link.
SOG are no longer referred to as our preferred or supported WoW guild.

For my part I hope that they continue to stick around, we have had a number of crossovers and I suspect WoW will lose quite a few players over the next 18 months as 'burnout' starts to kick in to those people who started playing it  some 30 months ago.  I very much hope we are able to welcome those players and enourage them whenver we see them on our servers - we have but a short time to make them active dMw members rather than just active WoW players!

TL.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the update TL. I too hope the guys stay around, if you are chatting to Gorion please pass on our best wishes to him for the future of SOG.

[Whitey]

You just have to look on Boomer to see the affect SoG has had. We have had a lot of members come over and I'm glad they decided to stay.

[Penfold]

I think it's great that they've decided to stay and, as Whitey says, there has been a great cross-fertilisation of gamers to CS:S (all of whom seem to be irritatingly better than I :ranting2:) lol

However the only thing I guess is worth mentioning is the ACL clan. I got emailed by Smite asking that they ACL'ers sit together at the LAN and on asking what ACL was, he replied:
   ACL = Argh Crap Leggit.
The first dMw WoW Guild.

Squ0nk
Smite
Armitage
Jamoe
Benny
Jas
Neil
Sadako

This was the first I've heard of it and not sure how this fits in with anything but thought it was worth a heads-up (especially the 'first dMw Wow Guild' bit).

I don't know if they've asked for a forum or enquired about being officially supported, but I guess it could potentially cause a dilemma.

PEN





   

[Bastet]

Afaik, ACL was a guild by dMw ppl, where as SOG was the dMw wow guild.
 
That said i am very glad the gorion has chosen to remain in the dMw structure, eventhough its not officialy supported anymore. It is as he says home for SOG

[OldBloke]

Thanks for the update TL. I too hope the guys stay around, if you are chatting to Gorion please pass on our best wishes to him for the future of SOG.

Indeed. And thanks to you Paul for all your efforts in achieving this result.