cards on the table

[JonnyAppleSeed]

culpa have decided not to go with a joint run as they have enough apps to run 25 mans alone (badly)
 
this leaves us back with 10 mans / badge run
 
For me its time to make the call
 
we have too many members and not enough action .... FFS we posted grull and only got 16 members sign up, out of how many
 
Sog as i joined was a raiding guild .... I'm sorry but i have a friends list for social gaming ( you are all on it ) ....
 
I don't mean this post to sound harsh but we will loose more and gain less, unless we can find a way to draw solid players in.. summer is coming availability Will drop
 
Thoughts on moving on  ..... ZA or kara badge runs for June ?

[sheepy]

so they have decided not to continue at all???

I find it strange that they want to stop the alliance so quickly, especially as they only had 9 people show up for the last grull / mag run!!!

ofc its there decision. IMO agressive recruitment and lots of badge runs / organised heroics and push ZA for a month.

Lets give it a real push for a month then re asses?

how does that sound

[JonnyAppleSeed]

Well .. the inital discusions with Sil were for the short term but i think she was presured to call it early.

[Othbarty]

Hmm, i didn't quite expect that tbh.

Well, in my opinion, scrap KZ. Badges can be obtained via heroics, and we should push ZA as much as we can from here and out. Wipefest or not, its the only way of progressing. We have gotten a new tank, lets use him for what he is worth. We now have atleast two decent geared tanks. No reason we can't do ZA. And we need to start spamming in general in the cities. I don't like it, but what other options do we have? We loose the guys we have geared up due to lack of raiding.. Where do that leave us?!

We need to push forward with what we got here and now, and stop with the moaning that "Oh, we can't do ZA, we will wipe, yada yada yada...". It ****es me off... How many times did we wipe on BWL?! Come on...

And as I start getting agitated here, ill stop writing and think a bit. We need to do something, and we need to do it rather quickly.

Oth

[Soon Jung]

Keep pushing forward. Do as much ZA as possible. A few kararuns wont hurt, but keep pushing ZA.
Recruit people aggressivly, let people know we are doing ZA and are pushing to get 25 man.
Kick the idiots within the initiate period, keep the ones that seem ok.
Just keep swimming, just keep swimming..

As a side note: I feel abit dissapointed that the GM of Mea Culpa can sit and say to us that they want to keep raiding with us cos thats what they enjoy, and then leave us out in the cold like that.
Their desicion I suppose..

And I am certain Oth doesnt mean to be cruel, but I do understand his frustration.

[spiritus]

took my time on this problem, and agree with most of the things said here.
Would be sad and quite a setback to go back to KZ full raiding now. ZA should be or main raid, 2 nights a week.
and as ellie said, but in a diffrent way: can you walk? then you can dance (antonio banderas in a dance movie)

[TeaLeaf]

We also need to address the main question Jas set: we have far too few active accounts in the guild at the moment (check the guild list and then look at when people were last online - over half the guild has not been online in over a week).  With summer coming (and Conan just out) then you will see lower attendance, so if the numbers do not change you might struggle ot field 10 to ZA even if you make it the main raid of the week.  

In WotLK 10 man raids will get the same instance as 25 man raids, but tuned down obviously.  Loot will be similar too.  So we could specialise in 10 mans and not do 25 mans, but many people want to see the 25 mans so atm I do not see this as a viable option tbh.

Seek allliances with other guilds who do not yet raid (SOG have the fight experience and can RL them and be in the positon that Mea Culpa are in with SOG atm).  If you lead the raids people might join you anyway when spaces become difficult to obtain.  I myself joined SOG in the first place to ensure I had a space in the then SOG/Danu Molten Core raids.  So let's go out and speak to other less known guilds and actively ask them.  Do a /who ironforge or shattrath to find some guild names, do a quick amory search to see who the GM is and whisper them to open a dialogue (and post on this forum to ensure someone else does not also whisper that GM).   What do we have to lose?

- you take the lead and run a join raid with someone else then run a DKP system.  People hate losing DKP and will stick with it longer and join to ensure they keep their loot rights.

Recruit more actively.  Yes you'll find some cocks, but I think it was generally agreed that all officers should have carte blanche to recruit anyone they want where they see fit.  If a member finds a good person then recruit them into guild, let's forget the forum registration for now, get the forum bit done afterwards (they will need to do it to find out about raids), but get them into the guild now.  If an officer finds a good person, ask them to join us and to raid with us.  we need active recruitment.

-if officers are not online enough or we consider recruitment something that we cannot commit the needed time to, then consider something like a 'recruitment week' where we give members the guild permissions to invite new members into the guild.  Get them to do the work for us when they find someone who wants to raid.  It's pretty easy to set the permissions for this after all.  It is however a snowball, we have few online atm, and slowly the numbers will increase and so will activity, but then it picks up it's own momentum.

-we need more regular and active pimping on the Blizz realm forum and the unofficial realm forums.  Keep the name awareness up and make the post something other than 'we need a tank', why not post a bit about what SOG stand for to explain why mature and sensible people will fit in here and why illiterate oiks will not.

-appoint some Class Leaders, get them to fill their classes with suitable recruits.  We can give them guild invite permissions.  Set the CL rank as having /o access.  To replace the /o channel for the current officers, create a private chat channel.  Sora do it that way so that CLs feel involved, the peopel who run the guild see what the CLs say, but still have a private channel to say their own stuff out of earshot of the CLs.

We basically need a surge in activity.  From both officers and members to get through this next period.  If we wait, then we will struggle even more over the summer and we need to be ready at the expansion with enough active members to run a 25 man raid.  If you have a 25 man raid then recruitment is typically easier and more self-sustaining.

That's some initial thoughts, comments anyone?

TL.

[sheepy]

i agree open recritument, sod the registering. we need a couple more tanks and healers specifically.

I dont think that scrapping kz is the way forwards. make it 1 day a week and push ZA for 2.

[TeaLeaf]

I dont think that scrapping kz is the way forwards. make it 1 day a week and push ZA for 2.

How many members will you lose if you keep pushing KZ as a main raid?  Why not push KZ to say a Friday and make it a badge run for fun?  Invite people from outside the guild where needed to make the numbers up.  Between us we know enough good toons to make it happen.

ZA is where the interest is at, it is T6 loot quality.

TL.

[Othbarty]

I agree TL. Who knows, by inviting "outsiders" we might end up with a couple new "insiders" (ehm... lol... but anyways)  in return. I do believe that pushing KZ would be a mistake. We need something new. Badly...

Oth

[smite]

Invited 2 new members last night resto druid and Rogue.
Apparently the rogue used to be in RG2 before the expansion (not as the rogue).... i have slept since the convo so forgot the name....or names i added.
 
They have both transfrered these chars from another Realm.
 
If you see them on get them to sigup on forums and raid site. I did ask at the time but it appears they havnt yet.
 
 
I will keep doing this until told to stop

[TeaLeaf]

Keep adding the members imo.  We have a strong enough officer crew to weed out the crap and control things.  

What I would be grateful for is some feedback from all officers on the specific suggestions made in this thread.

TL.

[sheepy]

im very infavour of inviting more ppl there is always the gkick option if they are prats.

btw i am not sugesting pushing kaz but to still have it on the table at the moment and allow a lot more flexibility with it, it can act as a "proving ground" for new inductees to the guild

[Othbarty]

Your suggestions are great TL. I have spent some time thinking about and formulating a post to slap on the azsune forums. Something your likely to see in a job ad in the paper perhaps?

I very much like the thought about letting the members invite ppl a weekend or something, that might drastically increase the member mass. We would have to set a lower limit on the level tho, 65 perhaps? preferably 70 and relatively good geared imo, but not lower than 65 without the consent of a officer (Which would discuss with the other officers in officer-chat) If such a weekend should take place, id like most of us to be online. Atleast one at "any" time (ofc, not in the middle of the night...) but I don't think that is impossible. (Long paragraph to say "I like it!", but hey ho

Seeking alliances is also something I am planning to put in the forums post. Have one "sub-section" something like "What can Silver Oak Guardians offer you as a player" and another something like "What can SOG offer you as a smaller guild". Its just on the thoughts level atm, so nothing drafted as of yet.

Just on a side note, it wouldnt hurt to make a post in the work in progress/recruitment forums when you add a new member out of the blue. Just to have a record of it, and somewhere to put immediate issues. (And ofc for me to rename and move, as i like (miss)using my powers :narnar:)

Just my 2-4 cents.

Oth