Teamwork

[Penfold]

I find teamwork is actually more map-and game-type dependent than anything else. Bloc, for instance, was the worse map for teamwork in any way, shape or form. Ambush I find is great for teamwork.
ATEOTD some maps just lend themselves more to working as a team than others. The same can be said with game types.

spawning is an issue - if you spawn back at base and the bomb is 3/4 off the way to the bomb point you ain't gonna be able to catch up and support it no matter what. I always head towards the bombsite - perhaps on the otherside of the map so I can give covering fire but I have n o doubt that could be construed at not supporting.

VC's are hard. On Monday I was so pee'd off that no one was talking on vc and basically ignoring me. The fact that one of the dials on my medusa had slid to 0 and was therefore cutting it out all voice comms was immaterial :whistle:.

PEN

[TeaLeaf]

I need to work out how to tell which map I am on in the first place I guess.

TL.

[Dr Sadako]

I find teamwork is actually more map-and game-type dependent than anything else. Bloc, for instance, was the worse map for teamwork in any way, shape or form. Ambush I find is great for teamwork.

I said this already when we set up the server. Some maps are made with only DM in mind. Most of the maps are very linear and small. It works great in singleplayer but not in multiplayer. The "problem" is that if we move on to custom maps the teamplay will be better as the maps are better but it will no longer be ranked. I would rather have good teamplay than a ranked server.

[Blunt]

I said this already when we set up the server. Some maps are made with only DM in mind. Most of the maps are very linear and small. It works great in singleplayer but not in multiplayer. The "problem" is that if we move on to custom maps the teamplay will be better as the maps are better but it will no longer be ranked. I would rather have good teamplay than a ranked server.

Never having ranked in any game before (I didn't play BF2 on ranking servers), I really enjoyed getting new perks and weapons on CoD4.

If we don't have a ranked server, what happens to the perks we've already gained? Will we still have UAV jammer and silent running for instance?
and what happens to the silencers and scopes?

[Dr Sadako]

Never having ranked in any game before (I didn't play BF2 on ranking servers), I really enjoyed getting new perks and weapons on CoD4.

If we don't have a ranked server, what happens to the perks we've already gained? Will we still have UAV jammer and silent running for instance?
and what happens to the silencers and scopes?

As far as I understand it you can set what weapons/perks that should be allowed. In a way it evens the playing field.

Regarding all the work you have done ranking you can make a backup of the player folder.

[Doorman]

Regarding all the work you have done ranking you can make a backup of the player folder.

Then do what with it? :g: Best you don't answer that.

[Dr Sadako]

Then do what with it? :g: Best you don't answer that.

Well, if we for example have two servers, one ranked and one unranked with custom maps, then you can copy the backup into the COD4 folder when you want to play on the ranked server.

[Benny]

ooh ooh I just said that in another thread.

The comms on CoD are crap, and it's our fault. The only teamwork appears to happen in twos. Pen backed me up on the snipery map whilst everyone else set up Butlins, and hopefully he saw the same in return.

On domination I'm not very good so tend to get somewhere and guard rather than go assaulting, but invariably get little response, or if I do, noone else says anything and I fell like I'm holding fort whilst others go fraggin'.

I hate the public server.

What I do need, which is another thread is a lesson on pulling the logs. I needed to last night on request from GM, but had no idea how to.

[Benny]

I may be oversimplifying here, but I'm not enjoying CoD and I used to. 4v4, 5v5 is ok, but once the numbers swell it's crap. CS had a similar period then got better, but at the moment with so many reg's who apparently can't be arsed I'm finding it frustrating. There's a modicum of teamwork in L4D, again maybe that's the restricted numbers on the sides.

The only enjoyment I had last night on CoD was when most of my team was dead and it was me and one or two others alive on a plant/defuse match. It meant we could talk and try a few plans. (admittedly in failure)

Then we restart, someone sprints for the bomb, shouts 'A' then we all toddle off wherever we feel like and do whatever. It's a Dave Lee that it's come to me ranting, it's not that usual but I want this game to work here and I really feel like it isn't.

I know, it's a repeat. But I played last night, tried a couple of times to instigate some team talk, type, work....minimal responses.

My comms are quiet I believe, hence the typed attempt. Not a sausage of response. The opposing team at one point were playing well, co-ordinated attacks on HQ. We were shambolic.

I said as much at the time, but to me it feels like a run and gun game. The respawn means that no-one cares if they die, particularly apparent in bog or any HQ game. There's no cause to stay alive.

The opposite end of the spectrum is the people who don't assist and sit back racking up enough for an airstrike, then a chopper. Not contributing to the team objective on the front line, sitting racking up kills for bonuses doesn't strike me as conducive to fun.

There are exceptions but unless 'everyone' who wants to play it properly - and there are a few - stops and makes people listen as a team, it's not going to get better. I'm happy to speak up, but there is no point if no-one else feels the same.

Finished. I've forgotten the rest.

[Anonymous]

I've played on servers where the respawn time is stretched and you are only allowed to fire with your gun up in the aiming position, that seemed to encourage teamwork a bit more.

[Doorman]

Unless CoD4 is limited to 4-5 players a side to my mind it's never going to be team orientated in the same way that CS is. What it should be and by and large it is, at least on the private server, objective orientated. I'm happy with that as long as people don't go fragging for it's own sake, or ignoring the bomb in order to go fragging. I'm probably missing something when I say the spawn points seem very haphazard to me. :blink: It's hard not to spawn kill when an enemy pops up in front of you while you're guarding a bomb site or whatever. What do you do? Let him turn round and kill you?
When someone like OldBloke says, with not a little despair in his voice, "I wish I could find a way to get some teamwork this game. :sad:" you know it's a tricky job. :g:
As I see it, the game is what it is and unless we can make it so that when you're dead, you're dead then we play it the way it is, but with the objective being paramount.
Good luck CoD4 admins.

[Armitage]

A fair bit of moaning in this thread with very few solutions. Lets try and make things better, just using comms to moan about the lack of tactics or just playing on publics will not help!

Big maps or fewer people seem to be it. But to be honest I don't see how 16 people running around a larger map will help. Ron is right 5v5 is probably the optimal team size. but there is still no way of getting traditional dMw team play, The only day we have 8v8 is on a Monday and people end up queuing for that. so I think it's better we get as many on the server as possible.

I think we are trying to apply the CS idea of teamwork and tactics to COD. I'm not to sure what we are doing is that wrong. The only thing I think we should do is talk more. I do try (I am one of the people to grab the bomb at the start of a round and shout "right to A" But what else can one do. COD is a very fast game as there are respawns there is no point sneaking around and get a kill every 5 minutes. as they are back in the game after 20 seconds. it's better to run in and take 3 or 4 of them with you so you team can push on.

Bog HQ was mentioned and I think we have some cracking tactic on this one. even if you don't know your doing them.

First thing to remember. YOU ONLY SCORE WHILE YOU HOLD THE HQ. kills/deaths have no bearing on you team score.

Tactics as I see them.

Defending team

70% of team wide defense, Find any little sniper spot you can and do what ever necessary to stop them getting near HQ

30% of team on close defense, plant claymores and keep out of the way of thrown grenades


Attacking Team.

Basic one this. Get to the HQ as quick (run, run, run) as you can*. your life is a lot cheaper here if you can get a 1:1 kill ratio you have done well. Once all the enemy have been killed. It only takes one to cap the HQ, better to send the rest of the team out to try and cover as many on the HQ spawn points as possible.
* does not mean all run in a straight line. Remember they may have a wide defense so send a couple to sweep around the back.

as I said I think we do this already the only thing wrong is lack of comms and I see a lot of this is to do with not being able to describe the location on the map easily. I Have just started to name maps, I have started BOG anyway. if any one fancy grabbing a jpeg of the web and start naming. let me know, so we don't double up.

if you have better idea lets have them. with competition starting soon we will need all the help we can get.

[Benny]

I don't disagree with a lot of your post. That said when we played the office'y type one and bog to a certain extent in the earlier days, comms was key.

I appreciate the points of flanking, wide defence etc, but *no-one* is talking. There is zero point in all of your side not defending close, and vice versa. Often on Dom I will state I'm covering an already capped flag, no-one else does the same. If we all make the effort on the comms we will all benefit.

If with 8 players you have two per flag on dom and two roaming I'm fairly sure you'd win it. We don't, we have 8 roaming cowboys and the odd indicator that teamwork is there. It's those little instance that make it worth it.

[Armitage]

I like the idea of 2 per flag and 2 where they are needed. But there is a problem with that tic tac and it's all the games fault.
 
we are defending A and doing a fine job. I am killed. you are now solo. I respawn at C miles from you I run as quick as i can to A. but now you are dead, you now spawn at B and try and and get to me. but I am dead. We are just wasting time. If we could select a spawn point like our old friend BF2 it would work. COD falls down here.
 
4@A and 4@B and let stuff C works better IMHO

[Benny]

So would the obvious answer not be to say...

2 per flag, if you die on a flag, your roamers head that way, wherever you spawn you guard and the ones that you spawn near become your roamers.

It's all about comms. I spawn, I say I'll cover here.
Someone alive says 'heading to A, need someone to pick up B'
Or need assistance, or help, or I'm over here.

Our comms are attrocious, that is fixable.