Disclaimer.

[Penfold]

Yes. It's my head (along with TL's) that's on the line and, depending on who the courts decide are the administrators of dMw, possibly yours too.

We spent considerable time finding out if we would be liable for any claims made for injury whilst attending an event that we had organised. The answer came back YES. This is a sensible precaution to alleviate that worry and it was agreed by the majority of the SHs.

I'm loathed to bring this up again and face the abuse but I know it's still outstanding.

As per the CL's instructions I'm going to progress this. It may or may not be a pointless exercise but for the sake of a bit of paper so be it. I'll have a look online to see whether I can get the wording together.

We'll try and word it so that people only have to sign it once. If anyone has any ideas on the wording then please say speak up .

In a day or so I'll post the fact that people will be asked to sign a disclaimer in the LAN booking thread so people are aware. I'd really appreciate it if you guys could back me up and not just get out the tar and feathers and join the baying mob.

Thanks

[OldBloke]

As before you have my full support on this and my thanks for the effort that's gone into it. Make it so ... no flak jacket required. :thumb:

[TeaLeaf]

Ditto.  

TL.

[Benny]

Ditty.

or 'o'. Good work gents.

[sheepy]

as always you have my support guys.

i along with i assume all others wish we didnt have to but it is the way of the world.

Im sure that we had to sign disclaimers when i attended (along with tutonic and frenzy) and "i" series lan many years ago.

[Penfold]

I've seen Doggers is joining the thread. I've tried a different tactic and we'll see what happens.

I've heard back from the Lawyer friend. He's tweaked the current disclaimer and done some legalise that I totally don't understand. Here is the revision:


  Hi Gid,

I've made a few small changes but otherwise it looks fine to me.   I've
 also added an English law and jurisdiction clause - although you  should
 perhaps just check that this does not contradict any other law and
 jurisdiction clause in the rest of the agreement which I haven't  seen.


QUOTE

DISCLAIMER

Section I, Definition of Terms
               For the purposes of this document, the following terms shall be used: The LANParty, also referred to as a “computer gaming event” or “event” is officially known as the dMw LAN gaming weekend
  __________________________________________________  _________________________

  The location is the physical location of the LANParty, held at: The Oliver Cromwell Hotel, March, Cambridgeshire
  __________________________________________________  _________________________

  The website is the official Internet location for information for attendees regarding the LANParty.
  It is located at: http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/index.php
  __________________________________________________  _________________________

Section II

I acknowledge that I desire to participate in the computer gaming  event
 which is entitled and defined in section I as "the LANParty" at "the
 location". I also acknowledge that my decision to participate in the
 LANParty is entirely voluntary and solely for the purpose of my  pursuit
 of recreational activities that I enjoy.

I agree that I am fully aware of the risks and hazards inherent in
 entering the premises and/or in participating in the LANParty and  hereby
 elect voluntarily to enter upon said premises, knowing the present
 condition and knowing that said condition may become more hazardous  and
 dangerous.

I, the undersigned, hereby assume all risk of illness or injury in  the
 LANParty in which I participate.  In consideration of permission to
 participate in the LANParty, I hereby irrevocably and forever  release,
 discharge, waive and hold harmless the LANParty and its officers,
 directors, employees, sponsors and agents (collectively referred to  as
 "the hosts") from any and all claims, losses, causes of action and
 liabilities of any kind (including legal fees) whatsoever and  howsoever
 arising out of or relating in any way to the LANParty, including  claims
 in negligence.  I confirm that this is a continuing disclaimer  covering
 each and every dMw LAN gaming weekend and event.

I agree that I have read and will follow all official rules which are
 posted on the website and at the LANParty. I further agree that  during
 the LANParty I shall conduct myself in an appropriate fashion and I
 shall not violate rules, perform harmful acts, use illegal or  pirated
 software or seek to transfer/copy software across our network. Nor  will
 I use profanity, obscenity or any otherwise objectionable conduct
 towards any person or property involved with the LANParty. I  recognise
 and understand that the hosts reserve the right to require cessation  of
 any such activity and the hosts, in their sole discretion, may  require
 my removal from the LANParty.

I confirm that I am at least 18 years of age. I agree this  instrument,
 in its entirety, is intended by me to be binding upon my heirs,
 executors, administrators, agents and/or assigns.

This disclaimer is governed by English law, and the High Court in  London
 has exclusive jurisdiction to determine any and all disputes arising
 hereunder.

UNQUOTE

Disclaimers like this are very effective in practice.  As well as
 signing, it would be sensible to get them to print their names, and  to
 date the disclaimer once they've signed it.

Because I'm sending this on a work email I have to make it clear
  that this message is coming from me and not from *********** - and of  course that I also disclaim all liability!!


etc

[Armitage]

sorry for not getting back to you pen. but just been chatting to the MRS. and I don't want to come across negative, so this is me being constructive.

my input

"I agree that I have read and will follow all official rules which are
posted on the website and at the LANParty. I further agree that during
the LANParty I shall conduct myself in an appropriate fashion and I
shall not violate rules, perform harmful acts, use illegal or pirated
software or seek to transfer/copy software across our network. Nor will
I use profanity, obscenity or any otherwise objectionable conduct
towards any person or property involved with the LANParty. I recognise
and understand that the hosts reserve the right to require cessation of
any such activity and the hosts, in their sole discretion, may require
my removal from the LANParty."

there is not going to be anyone left by the time we tuck in to our steaks. lol.

Mrs input

If we are going to do it properly, we need to do a H&S risk assessment. as we will need to show we have done our bit (that's me paraphrasing).
 
Theft is the other bit she (my good lady) flagged.  I take it that our insurance now covers our kit for theft now. but if we leave the door unlocked over night. who is responsible. can we sue last out, or an admin for being negligent. we need to think about that one.
 
me now.
 
worms and cans spring to mind. but as it's pen's house on the line lets do what we can.
 
 
back to my first point.
 
"may require my removal from the LANParty." ffs boys. a bit over the top.

[Penfold]

LOL arm fair point. We've basically lifted it from another LAN party's disclaimer so it's their words not ours.

Couple of points:

We're NOT covered for theft. We can't insure for other people's kit only for what belongs to dMw that's why it's written the way it is. It means ppl can't claim against loss (besides it it should be covered on their own house insurance).

The lawyer was adamant about adding the whatsoever and howsoever bit of the phraseology as they're common in law. He was also adamant about the adding 'including claims of negligence' bit which covers for such negligence on our part.

The final bit is more to cover ourselves and in practice we ain't going to enforce it. The Napster ruling stated that we, as providers of the network, can be held liable if people copy illegal software/music/files across it.

Perhaps we just tone it down and insert this one line

I agree that during the LANParty I shall not use illegal or pirated software nor seek to transfer/copy copyright material across the network."  

That falls in line with our AUP so I think it's OK to use?

I agree that the rest about  harmful bits and removal are superfluous so I've removed them.

Dunno about the H&S Assessment having never done one, although I believe taping cables etc does mean we're trying ?

Fair points mate and thank you (and Claire) for the input.

For the sake of ease, the proposed revised draft is:

DISCLAIMER

Section I, Definition of Terms
               For the purposes of this document, the following terms shall be used: The LANParty, also referred to as a “computer gaming event” or “event” is officially known as the dMw LAN gaming weekend
  __________________________________________________  _________________________

  The location is the physical location of the LANParty, held at: The Oliver Cromwell Hotel, March, Cambridgeshire
  __________________________________________________  _________________________

  The website is the official Internet location for information for attendees regarding the LANParty.
  It is located at: http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/index.php
  __________________________________________________  _________________________

Section II

I acknowledge that I desire to participate in the computer gaming  event
 which is entitled and defined in section I as "the LANParty" at "the
 location". I also acknowledge that my decision to participate in the
 LANParty is entirely voluntary and solely for the purpose of my  pursuit
 of recreational activities that I enjoy.

I agree that I am fully aware of the risks and hazards inherent in
 entering the premises and/or in participating in the LANParty and  hereby
 elect voluntarily to enter upon said premises, knowing the present
 condition and knowing that said condition may become more hazardous  and
 dangerous.

I, the undersigned, hereby assume all risk of illness or injury in  the
 LANParty in which I participate.  In consideration of permission to
 participate in the LANParty, I hereby irrevocably and forever  release,
 discharge, waive and hold harmless the LANParty and its officers,
 directors, employees, sponsors and agents (collectively referred to  as
 "the hosts") from any and all claims, losses, causes of action and
 liabilities of any kind (including legal fees) whatsoever and  howsoever
 arising out of or relating in any way to the LANParty, including  claims
 in negligence.  I confirm that this is a continuing disclaimer  covering
each and every dMw LAN gaming weekend and event.

I agree that during the LANParty I shall not use illegal or pirated software nor seek to transfer/copy copyright material across the network."  
   
 I confirm that I am at least 18 years of age. I agree this  instrument,
 in its entirety, is intended by me to be binding upon my heirs,
 executors, administrators, agents and/or assigns.

This disclaimer is governed by English law, and the High Court in  London
 has exclusive jurisdiction to determine any and all disputes arising
 hereunder.

Is this better? any more thoughts on it?

[TeaLeaf]

Only thing not sure about is the High Court bit at the bottom.  Not seen that mentioned exclusively as the home of jurisdiction before in addition to the normal 'English law' comment.  To my non-legal eye it implies that the usual lower courts and the House of Lords have no jurismydiction.   I would have thought that a specific mention is not needed but am unclear as to how to word it if it is removed.  Maybe:

I agree that this disclaimer is governed by English law, and that English Law has exclusive jurisdiction to determine any and all disputes arising hereunder.

I think that is much improved and would run with it.

Having to do this makes me a little depressed but I see the need for it and support it.  So let's not allocate this too mch headspace....

TL.

[Armitage]

worth a look,
 
http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/principles.htm
 
i'll try and have a read later too.

[Armitage]

We still have the line about pirated software when we are clearly promoting  leeching.
 

We're only upgrading the network to cope with your leeching anyway. :norty:
 
TL.

[TeaLeaf]

Leeching might also be game patches and legit software files, so I think that's a bit of an overreaction.  

TL.

[Armitage]

Could you honestly say people are running a second NIC for game patches.

[TeaLeaf]

Most PCs have 2 NICs if not more these days.  
I usually run 2 NICs at the LAN and dual NICs have been in use since LAN II as far as I am aware.  
As part of previous LAN preparations we have discussed running a second IP range for file transfers for precisely that purpose.  

None of these facts implies we support illegal pirated software.  I am not saying it is not a contentious issue where we need to step carefully and protect ourselves, but that's precisely what the disclaimer is trying to do.

TL.