Curved screen + projector idea. Whaddya think?

[Gnomie]

Hi!

Lately I've been thinking more and more about getting a projector for sim racing. Not in the near future, perhaps, but still.. my mind tends to wander when the final exams draw near.

This is kind of what I'm envisioning:



Background. Why do I want a curved monitor?
As sim racers, we obviously want a high field of view (FOV) to keep track of other cars and to get better immersion. However, high FOV is difficult to achieve. If you're using a single monitor, increasing the FOV will give the feeling of "driving from the back seat". Moreover, the resolution when looking straight ahead is terrible. Here's an example from LFS.



The red square is less than 1/3 of the monitor's height.

The best alternatives today use multiple monitors (or projectors) with solutions like SoftTH or TH2G, which are great, but I think it's possible to find even better options. As projectors become cheaper and cheaper, and more and more people build or buy cocpits where their wheel is not mounted on a desk, this opens new possibilities...

The Hardware
So I was thinking about using a projector on a curved display. The reason why this is so intriguing is that
a) wrapping the screen around you should give unprecedented immersion
b) solutions like jDome and Frex Canopy show that keeping the image in focus when using curved displays isn't really an issue
c) rear projection screens can be made from inexpensive materials like shower curtains, muslin etc. (do a google search if you're interested)

So the hardware side is taken care of: we can produce a curved monitor which gives 180 degrees REAL field of view. However this itself is not enough..

The Software
However, the main challenge remains: how do you make a single 16:9 projector output 180 degrees GAME field of view without giving you the feeling of driving form the back seat? This is not possible without some clever options within the software itself. We need a system which compresses the image towards the edges! In short, the sim should be able to output an image which looks kinda like this:



The vertical resolution is maintained, and the aspect ratio as well, but the image is compressed towards the edges.

If this were possible, we could then project this image onto the curved monitor and, voilà.. the distortions on the screen compensate for the comrpession of the image output from the simulation, to create a perfect representation of 180 degrees FOV inside your cockpit!



Sure, you'll loose some resolution towards the sides, but this should be of little consequence and a fair price to pay for what you get.

So what I'm asking -- no, pleading -- the sofware guys (LFS, iRacing +++) to do is to build in some sliders into the software which lets us compress the image towards the edges like I illustrated in that picture from LFS. I admit I have 0 idea how much work this would be, but surely it must be possible..? So it would be like this:
1) select FOV. The image looks like it does today ("driving from the backseat")
2) drag sliders to adjust amount of edge compression

So what do you reckon? Would you be interested in something like this? Does it sound like a complete load of bull? :g:

[Doorman]

It sounds great. As do SimCoMotion setups. All in my dreams I'm afraid :sad:

[T-Bag]

Sounds good. I think your main problem would be projectors will lose focus if the curvature of the screen is too high. The light coming from a projector is no parallel like your diagram, it's divergent. Which is why when you move a projector backwards the picture size changes. Imagine shining a laser pointer 50m, it remains in a fairly small dot (though does expand slightly) whereas a projector increases vastly.
A new lens would possibly be required to prevent the image being blurry. or a second projector with not image in the centre focused nearer th distance of the outside edge. Then again if the whole thing is about immersion you will see out the corner of your eye a car passing your side, even if it is blurry.

Now there are projectors designed to be moved around this would make a very portable yet immersive gaming system. Shows promise, though I think there are some fairly large projector related kinks to be worked out.

[Gnomie]

Yes, I was worried about this as well. But as you might know, there are already products out there which use curved sreens. Such as the Frex Canopy and the jDome. It's of course hard to judge just by looking at the videos, but I doubt that these proucts would have been developed if the focus issue was very severe.

I dunno, it might also depend on the type of projector you use etc. But I remain optimistic! I still think the software bit is the biggest challenge.

I'm going to post a thread about this in the iRacing suggestions forum. I'll let you know if I get a reply. (which I doubt..!)

[Slider 46]

Well i like the idea alot. Just think how much weight i can save over three monitors and mounting frames if i actualy get a motion sim going.
Surley the software wouldnt be that tricky although over my head. SoftTh can output different res' to different screens so in effect, you need the same thing but only to one screen/projector. How hard can it be?:blink: (or am i missing something?)

Frex claim you can use any projector on thier kit so  i cant see that hindering things much. As you say Gnomie, its hard to see to much from the vid's but it certainly looks cool.

[Romus]

So what I'm asking -- no, pleading -- the sofware guys (LFS, iRacing +++) to do is to build in some sliders into the software which lets us compress the image towards the edges like I illustrated in that picture from LFS. I admit I have 0 idea how much work this would be, but surely it must be possible..? So it would be like this:
1) select FOV. The image looks like it does today ("driving from the backseat")
2) drag sliders to adjust amount of edge compression

Is SoftTH not already doing that?

"lensCorrection setting enables "lens correction" postprocessing
effect on the framebuffer which can eliminate the distortion
at the screen edges at the cost of resolution on the middle
screen. Setting of 1 enables the support for it while keeping
it disabled by default. The application key + A/Z/D/C/X key
combinations can be then used to adjust the correction in real
time. Setting a value higher than 1 enables the correction by
default at the set value."

[Direct3D]
; ** Advanced setting for Direct3D games **
; lensCorrection: Lens correction, set to 1 to enable support. >1 to enable by default
; lensCorrectionEdge: Lens correction edge offset

lensCorrection=0
lensCorrectionEdge=0

[Katsushika Matsumoto]

This would be really great to have in my setup, I watched the Frex canopySCREEN video many times but obviously the price really put my off (> â,¬1000,â€").

But I'm wondering why don't you wait a little longer until the jDome is released? The estimated retail price is gonna be $125 ~ $200 that's quite affordable isn't it? :g:

[Gnomie]

Is SoftTH not already doing that?

Hm, that's very interesting. I hadn't thought about using SoftTH! I thought you needed three monitors (or projectors) for using that, though.. part of the point is that I only want to use 1 projector. I'll head over to the SoftTH forums and ask!

But I'm wondering why don't you wait a little longer until the jDome is released? The estimated retail price is gonna be $125 ~ $200 that's quite affordable isn't it?

Yeah, the jDome looks decent, but like I said I already have a plan for how to make the screen. Shower curtains seem to work well! Moreover I don't need the screen to curve "over my head", like the jDome does. I only want it bent in one direction, if you know what I mean.

[Romus]

Hm, that's very interesting. I hadn't thought about using SoftTH! I thought you needed three monitors (or projectors) for using that, though.. part of the point is that I only want to use 1 projector. I'll head over to the SoftTH forums and ask!

Try it for one screen and you'll see. I think I tried that and I'm confident that it works, but I don't dare to say for sure. It takes less time to try it than to get an answer from the forum...

[Gnomie]

True! I'll play around with it this afternoon and see if it works. If so, I'm in heaven.

[Mille Sabords]

Don't forget the noise and heat generated by these projectors...
They come at affordable prices but the key value is the lamp duration, as these lamps cost $$$ to replace and do not last as long as one would wish.

Good luck with your project, interesting idea!

[delankster]

True! I'll play around with it this afternoon and see if it works. If so, I'm in heaven.

i'm interested on how you get on, keep us updated pls

[Gnomie]

Don't forget the noise and heat generated by these projectors...
They come at affordable prices but the key value is the lamp duration, as these lamps cost $$$ to replace and do not last as long as one would wish.

Yeah, I know.. but if the alternative is to buy triple monitors and Matorx TH2G, it's not too expensive afterall. Depens on what you compare it to, really. Heat + noise could indeed be an issue, but then I'll just have to crank up the volume in my headphones.

i'm interested on how you get on, keep us updated pls

Thanks for the encouragement! I tried fiddling around with various SoftTH settings after getting some pointers from the guys at the SoftTH forums, but no success so far. Hopefully someone who's familiar with that software will help me out!

[spoong]

the key value is the lamp duration

Some bulbs even have "intelligence" which means a perfectly good bulb shuts down after its given lifetime, forcing you to buy a new one.  Sometimes lamp costs are 2/3 of the cost for a new projector...

[Gnomie]

Some bulbs even have "intelligence" which means a perfectly good bulb shuts down after its given lifetime, forcing you to buy a new one.  Sometimes lamp costs are 2/3 of the cost for a new projector...

Bulbs last several thousand hours, though.. even with several hours of racing every day a bulb should still last for years. So I'm not worried about that.

I've had no respons on the SoftTH forums lately, so that doesn't seem to work unfortunately. It appears that we need the cooperation of the sim developers to make this work. And I don't think either LFS or iRacing will spend resources on this, if it takes a lot of work.. which honestly I have no clue if it does! For all I know it could be a 10 minute job..!