Genaral vezax 10 dMr 0

[JonnyAppleSeed]

How frustrating is this :boxing:  

The git just will not die. Thoughts and tips welcome :g:

[Jim]

Very, but before i came in it sounded like you were having some steady progression on him..

I think once we can sort out defensive cooldowns for the MT and be a bit more controlled in movement to vapours then it should just be a matter of time before he bites the dust

[TeaLeaf]

What were the problems and which classes were you running? (any logs?)  I can then try and add some help from what Elysium do.

[JonnyAppleSeed]

Didint run a log tho i wish i had

interupts were good we never got hit .. We seemed ok with mana grabbin vapors as and when

I think we had every combination of what could go wrong at some point. Jim is spot on with the problems we sort them and he will fall over

[Améthyst]

I think we had every combination of what could go wrong at some point. Jim is spot on with the problems we sort them and he will fall over

I agree, we did have our fair share of learning last night, but we learnt a hell of a lot too & our first few tries we had people with us who had never been there before & as we all remember our first ever night there was a lot worse!!  It's like any 'dance' in a raid boss, we need to learn the steps, move in time, & kill the *******!!! :ranting2:

[TeaLeaf]

Are you kiting or standing still?

[JonnyAppleSeed]

Standing ... we did have a talk about running him about but thought it better to go with using MT cooldowns .. so maybe a bit of both is needed

[kregoron]

at the end it basicly seemed like mt not having enough mitigation cools to handle the damage

[TeaLeaf]

Standing is generally easier if the mitgation is correctly timed.  It avoids a lot of problems that can occur when you try to move him.  The only moving of the boss tends to be between mitigations  when the tank can slowly idle across to the next vapor target (DK gripping makes this even less required movement).

TL.

[Azunai]

Yep. But that tactic requires that you have enough cooldowns to use every 1 minute. Basically we had this pattern:

1st: Garrit uses DP, reduces dmg taken by 50%, cooldown 2 minutes
2nd: Disc Priest uses PS, reduces dmg taken by 40%, cooldown 3 minutes
3rd: Garrit uses DP
4th: (Here's where it generally went wrong if everything else had gone right)
5th: Garrit uses DP
6th: Disc Priest uses PS
7th: Garrit uses DP
8th:
9th: Garrit uses DP
10th: If he's not dead at this point there will be berserk anyway.

In the end (when I was there at least) we hit about 55% when 4th occured, so granted we keep the same linear progress we'd have killed him between the 8th and the 9th (which is kinda close to Berserk as well, cause that's 9 minutes iirc?). The solution we had at some point was to have Hal use Hand of Sacrifice + Bubble, it would reduce my dmg taken by 30%. It's mitigation but not a lot...

[TeaLeaf]

We have also used hand of sacrifice + bubble from a pala healer and it seems to work fine. But yes, it's a CD problem so you need people with the mitigation talents & CDs to use.

[Azunai]

Alternatively we could try to kite through 1 of them. As long as I announce beforehand that at the next emote the melee/healer group will need to move and keep up it should be ok. I've seen some easy methods on the web to make sure that the kiting is fast enough. And if we only have to do it once, maybe twice max...

[TeaLeaf]

Aye you could kite, but we found it very RNG getting the right range to avoid being one shot, or getting back into range too early and being one shot, or the melee/healers getting out of range and getting crash on them.  So many things can go wrong on the kite, it is very RNG so we decided to avoid it all together on that fight and just mitigate & heal as it was far simpler and less prone to RNG error.

[Azunai]

Ok, I know that we've chosen a method and that we've worked it out so that we can go for quite a bit without anyone dying, but I get the feeling that we're not doing it right. Whilst our method gives us survival, we lose out what I think is far too much on dps. We've been at least 10% (in health) behind on dps throughout every attempt, and while of course our attempts aren't flawless yet, it should not be that bad. I've done more research via tankspot, and I have a thread explaining our method there pending for some advice.

Meanwhile I've watched their video and I've noticed a couple of things. First, if you subtract the intro and outro of the video from the total duration, you'll notice that the fight lasts a total of 6 minutes and about 23 seconds. We hit enrage tonight whilst executing our own tactic pretty much flawlessly with 10% on the counter. Had we carried on as normal, we would have killed him @ 11 minutes and some seconds. That's almost twice as long, and I get the feeling it's not how it's supposed to go. We can't be that crap at dps, if you look at the relative ease we do the other fights with...

So I looked on. I'd like to ask everyone to watch the video (turn it on HD and full screen if you have to) and take note of A) the way they have positioned their players around the room, B) how they dps from the get go and do not seem to stop regardless of wether they're in a puddle or not and C) how Lore - the narrator - explains their way of handling vapors and the positioning related to it.

A) If you watch the people around Vezax you see they're all well apart and spread in a circle all around the boss. Means they don't have to run away from eachother when they get Life Leech and can just carry on dps'ing, unless they're near eachother in a mana/dps puddle when that happens. See C)

B) Everywhere you look you pretty much constantly see people dpsing, mana or not. I think we can learn from this. We'll burn through our mana alot quicker, yes, but he will also drop a *lot* more in health.

C) They handle the vapors by dividing the ranged dps into "2 or more groups" with at least 1 healer per group, and each of these groups cover a certain area of the room. As you see in the video they stay more or less spread around and only converge on eachother when they need to mana up. They seem to also not go for the dmg puddle unless it's reasonably close, which I guess makes sense, because you will lose out the dps that you gain from the puddle by the time it takes to walk to it.

So what would I suggest we do? The following:

Say that we have our more or less usual group of 4 ranged, 1 tank, 3 healers and 2 melee, of which 1 is a dedicated interrupter. I would suggest we keep the tank and melee where they are (obviously) and leave with them 1 healer. We split the 4 ranged into 2 groups each with a healer, covering the 2 sides of the room as they are now, and using vapors as needed by the healers in each respective group. The ranged will furthermore continuously cast rather than only when there's dmg puddles around. So we have:

Group 1: MT, Melee, 1 healer
Group 2: 2 ranged, 1 healer
Group 3: 2 ranged, 1 healer

It requires a bit more juggling with the vapors because there's the odd chance that all (or most) of the vapors will spawn on 1 side. If the group on the opposite side desperately needs mana they can temporarily run over to get it whilst the 1st group ignores one, but I do believe vapors are spread enough that we won't have them all on 1 side.

I do believe it's well worth a shot because the dps we're doing now is simply too low. Looking at meters I see 3k-3.7k for our casters, and the melee is sitting @ around 2k average. That's not gonna cut a 10 minute enrage 8.4 million hp fight.

[Jim]

on a side note - we should change the name of the thread to General Vezax 23 - DMR 1

THATS RIGHT WE GOT HIM DOWN BABY ROCK ON!