Important DMR Information

[Gandalf]

• Guild Membership Standards
• Class leaders
• Performance
• Attendance
• New recruits
• Raiding requirements
• Raid pace
• DKP
• Achievements in raids
• Current raid instances
• TeamSpeak server details
• Guild Quartermaster

Guild Membership Standards
DMR is a fun, sociable raiding guild filled with people from all walks of life with one thing in common. We all enjoy WoW and we all enjoy the fun, friendly interaction between others. As DMR is a part of the larger dMw community we have specific guidelines that we all must follow. You can read about the Community Membership Standards here.

dMw also has General Gaming Standards that relate to the other games that we play. These are not fully compatible with WoW due to the nature of the game, so I will highlight the key points here that we also must all adhere to with additions in italics.   The General Gaming Standards are a standard of conduct to which all members of the 'Dead Men Walking' (dMw for short) community must adhere. They have been drawn up to ensure that the actions of an individual does not spoil the enjoyment of others and to provide information as to what players can expect whilst gaming with us.

Understand our Ethos

The dMw community aims to provide a home for players who revel in mature gameplay of all kinds. A member's skill level is unimportant to us here because we recognise an individual's mature attitude, sense of teamwork and fairplay far more. However if you wish to be a part of our raiding team, you do need to show a level of dedication above that which is required for our social members.

Attitude / Community

A big part of what makes dMw what it is today is the sense of community people feel with each other. As part of this community you should treat all other members with respect and report problems you see in-game that are contrary to the dMw ethos.

Language

All players should hold a mature level of conduct at all times so keep your language in the forums, in any WoW channel, including whispers, and when using voice comms in line with this.

Warnings

A warning will be given before any other form of punishment if you are violating the rules or guidelines of gameplay. These will be in a whisper from an officer online. If you continue to violate any rules or guidelines of gameplay then you will be demoted to the 'Dog House' for a period of no less than 24hours. This will be a new rank that will only allow you to see guild chat, not reply to it. You will also lose your raid spot if you are in the 'Dog House' on a raid night
Problems with Guild Members

If anyone has a problem with a guild member, then the first thing you should do is to talk to that member and explain and try to resolve the issue. If you are unable to do this, let an officer know, either by a whisper in game or by Private Message on the forums. Please give as much detail as you can to the officers so we can take fair and appropriate action.

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Class leaders.
In WoW there are four distinct classes. Tanking, Healing, Melee DPS and Ranged DPS. We have four channels now, one for each class. dMrTanking, dMrHealz, dMrMelee and dMrRanged. Please use them!

Tank Class Leaders
[table=head]Forum Name|In Game Name(s)
****|****
halbarad|Halbarad[/table]

Healing Class Leaders
[table=head]Forum Name|In Game Name(s)
JonnyAppleSeed|Jas
****|****[/table]


Melee DPS Class Leaders
[table=head]Forum Name|In Game Name(s)
****|****
Whitey|Whitéy[/table]


Ranged DPS Class Leaders
[table=head]Forum Name|In Game Name(s)
Limps|Limpsy
****|****[/table]

A class leaders role is to help out the raid leaders during the raid by making sure their entire class knows the parts of the fight relevant to them and that they have assigned targets if applicable. Once the class leader is happy he can say to the raid leader that they are set and we can then progress with the fight without lengthy tactic discussions. They are also responsible for looking into fight mechanics and tactics to ensure that they are doing all their class requires for a particular fight.

If they have particular tactics for their class that differs to other classes then post up on the forums in the class area and say, in simple bulleted lists what they do. For example, the Lord Jaraxxus fight.

Melee DPS tactics;
1. Attack boss, stay out of green fire.
2. Mistress spawns, attack mistress, stay out of green fire.
3. Mistress dies, attack boss, stay out of green fire.
4. Infernals spawn, ignore and attack boss, stay out of green fire.
5. goto 2.

Ranged DPS tactics;
1. Attack boss, stay out of green fire.
2. Mistress spawns, attack mistress, stay out of green fire.
3. Mistress dies, attack boss, stay out of green fire.
4. Infernals spawn, single target down each marked infernal, stay out of green fire.
5. goto 1.

So there you have two example class tactics with a different point 4 for each class. That is what you need to be aware of as a class leader, and you need to ensure that everyone you are responsible for is also aware of this.

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Performance.

After each raid, there will be a link posted to the combat logs of that raid. Your job will be to look at each boss fight to see if there are any members of your class that are underperforming. If so, try to find out why. It may be that they died early on, if that is the case find out why they died and see what can be done to help prevent that in the future. If they are below the normal DPS level for their class then contact them and ask if they need any help in improving. It may be something as simple as regemming or reenchanting, or it may be a spec issue or rotation problem.

At the end of the day, we need all our members to perform to the best of their abilities in raids for dMr to progress through the newer instances. If you find your dps is not what others are, then don't be afraid to ask for advice on the forums as we will be keeping track and your class leaders will be contacting you to see if they can help.

We will also be monitoring subsequent raids. If a member is under performing then they will be considered 'on trial' for their raiding spot. If a member is still under performing for three consecutive raids then that member will lose their raiding rank and will become a social member.

That covers the Class leaders job description.

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Attendance
More specifically raid attendance. We are primarily a social guild with a desire to raid officially three nights a week in the top instances. To do this we need a core raiding team of dedicated players willing to put in the time and effort to turn up on time and to learn all the relevant tactics for dMr to progress.

We have been fairly relaxed with our raiding rank (Honoured) and at the moment, once a raider always a raider. However, this will have to change as we are starting to get more and more people wanting to raid and others that just turn up every so often and expect a place. It makes it very difficult for the raid leaders to pick a solid team that we require to progress through the instance without wiping badly because we don't have enough healers, or we have too many melee.

Out of all the changes, this one will be the biggest, but it's not that bad! How it will work is this. We ask that you raid 2/3 nights. This will allow people who work shifts to still keep their raiding rank but will weed out the members who have not raided for a while.

What I want to be able to do is to log on 30 mins before the raid and look at the calendar, confident that everyone on there will turn up. I can then sort the group out before hand and get everyone invited with the minimum of delay and we can start with out any delay.

We will be monitoring attendance with the logs, and here is how we will handle demotions. If after two weeks you have not attended a raid and we have not heard from you then you will have a mark against your name, and we will notify you of this (it will be between the officers and the person involved only, no one else will know). For the next two weeks you will need to raid at least once for this mark to disappear. If you do not, then we will automatically demote you to our social rank (Friendly) and you will lose your raiding spot.

This brings us onto our final point. New recruits and social members in guild wanting a raiding spot.

We will only bring new recruits directly into the guild as a raider if they a: have the required gear level (currently full Tier 9 or equivalent gear) and b: there is a space available for their particular class.

For existing guild members that are currently social and wish to be raiders, then they need to post in the members forum that they wish to start raiding and we will then check to ensure they have the required gear level and that there is a slot open for their class.

If this is the case then we will bring them in on a trial raid if we have a spot for their class. This will need to be over a weeks raiding to get a good feel for their abilities. If they do well, then we will promote them to a full raider and they will then be expected to perform to the same standards of our existing raiders.

Any social member that does not wish to be a full time raider can still be called upon during a raid if we require that particular class to progress. However, they will be bottom of the pile for any loot and will only be awarded loot if no-one else wants it and that loot is going to end up being dis-enchanted.

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Raiding requirements
All members that are signed up to raid are expected to have the following items.

• Relevant flasks for their class, enough for the raid duration
• Enough food to last the raid for buffs
• Potions/Bandages

It would also be beneficial to bring a few flasks for your off-spec, as you may be asked to off-spec if the raid requires it.

Please do NOT rely on there being Fish Feasts at every raid. Sure there usually is, but do get into the habit of bringing your own food, at least a stack per raid, just incase there isn't any Fish Feasts available.

You are also required to have at least a basic overview of each boss fight so we don't have to explain in detail what each member needs to be doing. This will save time.

Breaks during raids. We will be having ONE break half way through the raid. This will last for a minimum of five minutes upto a maximum of ten minutes. These breaks are not negotiable and if you go AFK during the raid, you WILL be replaced. Just so we are all clear on the above. IF YOU GO AFK DURING A RAID YOU WILL BE REPLACED. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Teamspeak. We've mentioned before about excess comms on TS, and it is starting to get out of hand again. During raids the only people speaking will be the raid leaders. If you have something to say that will benefit the raid, whisper a raid leader and you will be then asked to speak. Please do not speak out of turn or you may be muted.

Finally, we will be sorting the raid team out from the calendar around 30 minutes before the raid start, so please do not leave it to the last minute to sign up or you may not get a space! Once we have the team sorted we will start to invite in the following order. Tanks first, then healers, once they are filled we will start to bring in the melee dps and then ranged dps.

Depending on the number of signups you may be asked to sit out, please make a note and remind us on the next day you are raiding and you will have priority.

There are a couple of essential addons that you are required to have installed if you wish to raid.

These addons assist you with boss encounters and also help the raid leaders as they present us with lots of essential information.

Firstly, you need to have installed a boss encounter addon. The two you can choose from are Deadly Boss Mods and BigWigs. You only need one of these installed, so pick your preferred one. Deadly Boss Mods is by far the most popular.

Next you will need oRA2. This will enable the raid leaders to see lots of info about your current status such as cooldowns.

Omen is also required to keep an eye on the amount of threat you are generating so you don't pull aggro off the tank.

So, to recap. Please install the following as a bare minimum.
Deadly Boss Mods OR BigWigs
oRA2
Omen

Class Specific Addons
Paladin
Pally Power is an add-on that provides an interactive and easy to use interface that allows you to control assignments of blessings for yourself and, if you are a party leader or an assistant, for other paladins in your group or raid.

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Raid Pace
TS
TS is used what it's needed for. Chitchat during trash shouldn't be a problem so long as the trash doesn't require comms, but is offlimits during bosses. One person (or at the most the people who need to relay info like 1 for hallway and 1 for arena in case of Thorim) talks, the rest listens and acts. Your input is appreciated but unless it's absolutely critical to speak (like a tank or other key figure d/cing), simply don't. For instance we don't really need to know that you're dead, we can generally see that in our raidframes by the big black gap amidst all the green.

Buffing and Pulling
When killing trash we go as fast as we can. I'm not saying we need to chainpull through everything but if no one died then there's no reason not to pull next pack. Unless there's mana issues we should be able to run on, mark up and gogo.

For bosses on farm I have created a 25-second countdown macro that you already saw tonight. I will press this button the instant the last person reaches the buff location. At this point you can buff up, drink mana and if they aren't done already, assign healers/tanks.

Tactic talk
Class leaders see to it that their class members know their targets if needed. Exceptions are situations where the entire raid needs splitting in a crossclass manner, like Thorim or Freya. They will be announced globally after which the 25 second warning comes in.

If a boss is new, full tactic explanation will only occur on the very first time we go there. Adjustment talk on consecutive tries will be done if needed but kept short. The next raid every raider is expected to know the basic mechanics of the fight and how to handle them. The net is full of info on all of them.

Loot handling
Contrary to popular belief it doesn't actually matter wether everyone in the raid is alive or not, or even, if I'm not mistaken, wether they're in the instance or not at the time of the kill. As long as they tagged the boss they are eligible for loot. This means that corpses and chests can be opened as soon as the boss hits the deck. Gold gets distributed to corpses as well, and if you missed an emblem you can loot it once you're up.

Loot can be sorted while we carry on with trash. You can check the corpse right after its death to see if there's anything you need. Wether there is or isn't, get to the next pull and rock on, keeping an eye on the loot announcements.

Deaths
Unless there's like 5+ people dead, when one or more people died from trash 1 designated resser (at the start of raid) stays behind and resses whilst the rest of the group carries on. Buffs can be tossed on the fly or at the next boss fight. You do not need to be buffed to the teeth for most trash, so don't go around repeatedly asking for that last single BoM you miss.

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DKP
We run a capped DKP system with an auto award set to award DKP at regular intervals.

• At 20:10 everyone in the raid, including standby members are awarded 1 DKP. Please be on time or you will miss out on this award!
• Every 30 minutes after this period the addon will auto award everyone in the raid 1 DKP. (This is why we have the standby members in the group, but not in the instance)
• Bidding will be handled by the addon and you can bid what you want for the item, there are no timelimits for these bids to prevent sniping and a call to end the bidding will be decided by the ML.
• You can bid more than you have up to -25 DKP for a single item transaction only. You will then have a negative number and will need to make that up before bidding again (So if something drops you really want, you won't lose out)
  
• The DKP cap is to be set at 100. Anyone going over this will have DKP deducted for the cap. This will prevent hording and encourage spending on loot.
• There will no longer be any offspec or mainspec rolls. If you want it, you can bid for it as you are not going to waste valuable DKP by bidding loads for an offspec item! - NOTE Loot council rules still apply and if an item is of huge benefit to a main spec character but is currently being won by someone for their off spec then we reserve the right to award to the main spec character.
  
• Guest members (from other guilds or non-raiding ranked DMR members) can bid on items, however they cannot go into negative DKP so raiding members will always have their 'DKP overdraft' facility to use.
• If you stop being an active raider and are moved to the social 'Friendly' rank then your current DKP will be reset to 0
• If you sign up and dont turn up you will loose 7 DKP

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Achievements in Raids
Unless the raid is a specific achievement run, please do not attempt to get any achievements in the raid and just focus on taking down the boss.

Once we have an instance on farm, then we can start to concentrate on getting the achievements and hard modes, but not before!

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DMR Raiding Instances
The following instances are locked to DMR. Please do not PUG these if you are a raider.

Raid night 1 = ICC25 (Loot = DKP)
Raid night 2 = ICC25 (Loot = DKP)
Raid night 3 = ICC25 (Loot = DKP)

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TeamSpeak Server Details
Server IP: ts.storms-uk.com
Nickname: NOT using player name might result in kick, same for non guilded ppl in guild (passworded) channels
Set to Anonymous login
Password: dMwTalking

When you connect you'll be in the Beer Bar (default channel). Please switch to your chosen channel:

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Guild Quartermaster
This rank is for management of the Guild Bank and distribution of supplies to our raiding team. They will also be responsible for handling requests for items from guild members and keeping the Guild Bank tidy and organised.

If you need anything from the Guild Bank, please speak to our Quartermaster. Our current Quartermaster is;

[table=head]Forum Name|In Game Name(s)
Sithvid|Sithysithvid[/table]

[TeaLeaf]

I moved this in here so that we can update it and then re-release if still needed.  Jesung pointed out that it was more than a little out of date, so I parked it here and we can do some changes.

[TeaLeaf]

Revision number 1
Hacked some terminology out that we no longer use, but I'm sure there is more editing to be done on this but I am out of time for right now.  Might take a look later.  

Green = my open questions to you
Red = stuff I made up and would like your confirmation on
The rest = heavily edited but non-contentious and for your review and comment

We have other posts up that crossover into some fo the mentioned areas.  We developed these posts as DMR's raiding habits changed, but perhaps it is time to roll some of the info from those other posts and this one into a comprehensive single post like Gandalf did with this one.  Otherwise new recruits have no single place to go for guidance.
 
Comment away..... :narnar:

• Guild Membership Standards
• Role Leaders
• Performance
• Attendance
• New recruits
• Raiding requirements
• Raid pace
• DKP
• Achievements in raids
• Current raid instances
• TeamSpeak server details
• Guild Quartermaster

Guild Membership Standards
DMR is a fun, sociable raiding guild filled with people from all walks of life with one thing in common. We all enjoy WoW and we all enjoy the fun, friendly interaction between others. As DMR is a part of the larger dMw community we have specific guidelines that we all must follow. You can read about the Community Membership Standards here.

dMw also has General Gaming Standards that relate to the other games that we play. These are not fully compatible with WoW due to the nature of the game, so I will highlight the key points here that we also must all adhere to with additions in italics.   The General Gaming Standards are a standard of conduct to which all members of the 'Dead Men Walking' (dMw for short) community must adhere. They have been drawn up to ensure that the actions of an individual does not spoil the enjoyment of others and to provide information as to what players can expect whilst gaming with us.

Understand our Ethos

The dMw community aims to provide a home for players who revel in mature gameplay of all kinds. A member's skill level is unimportant to us here because we recognise an individual's mature attitude, sense of teamwork and fairplay far more. However if you wish to be a part of our raiding team, you do need to show a level of dedication above that which is required for our social members.

Attitude / Community

A big part of what makes dMw what it is today is the sense of community people feel with each other. As part of this community you should treat all other members with respect and report problems you see in-game that are contrary to the dMw ethos.

Language

All players should hold a mature level of conduct at all times so keep your language in the forums, in any WoW channel, including whispers, and when using voice comms in line with this.

Warnings

A warning will be given before any other form of punishment if you are violating the rules or guidelines of gameplay. If you continue to violate any rules or guidelines of gameplay then you will be demoted to the 'Dog House' for a period of no less than 24 hours. This will be a new rank that will only allow you to see guild chat, not reply to it. You will also lose your raid spot if you are in the 'Dog House' on a raid night[/color] - does this rank still exist?


Problems with Guild Members

If anyone has a problem with a guild member, then the first thing you should do is to talk to that member and explain and try to resolve the issue. If you are unable to do this, let an officer know, either by a whisper in game or by Private Message on the forums. Please give as much detail as you can to the officers so we can take fair and appropriate action.

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Class Channels.
We have four role channels: dMrTanking, dMrHealz, dMrMelee and dMrRanged. Please use them!

Tank Class Leaders
[table=head]Forum Name|In Game Name(s)
Whitey|Whytee
Michelanio|Halbarad[/table]

Healing Class Leaders
[table=head]Forum Name|In Game Name(s)
JonnyAppleSeed|Jas[/table]


Melee DPS Class Leaders
[table=head]Forum Name|In Game Name(s)
Whitey|Whytee
Michelanio|Halbarad[/table]


Ranged DPS Class Leaders
[table=head]Forum Name|In Game Name(s)
Sheepher|Sheepy
Tealeaf|Teaell[/table]

Role leaders make sure that the raid knows the parts of the fight relevant to them and that they have assigned targets if applicable.

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Performance.

After each raid logs are posted here.  Your job will be to look at each boss fight to see if you are underperforming. If so, try to find out why and fix it.  Check how others performed, look for differences; use the relevant boss thread or role forum topic to ask others for help.

Officers monitor raid performance. If a raider is under-performing then you will be contacted and the areas where you need to improve highlighted.  We will offer help wherever we can to assist the raider improve their performance to the required level.   If a member is still under performing after a period of time then  that member's raid rank may be lost.

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Attendance
We are primarily a social guild with a desire to raid officially three nights a week (for RGT) in the top instances (or two nights per week for RGW). To do this we need a core raiding team of dedicated players willing to put in the time and effort to turn up on time and to learn all the relevant tactics for DMR to progress.

RGT Attendance: We ask that you raid a minimum of 2 out of the 3 nights. The raid attendance tracker in the Boss Compendium section let's you track your attendance over the previous 12 raids.  When your attendance drops from Green to Yellow we get concerned.  Attendance that is in the Red is subject to loss of raid rank (holidays and agreed periods of absence excepted).

RGW Attendance: need something here

We will be monitoring attendance with the trackers linked in the Boss Compendium section of the forums.  Raid ranks are not for life, you need to keep turning up to retain them.

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Raiding requirements
All members that are signed up to raid are expected to have the following items.

• Relevant flasks for their class in case you miss a cauldron
• Relevant food buffs in case you miss a feast
• Bandages
• Appropriate Potions (e.g. Volcanic Pots for caster dps, Swiftness Pots etc)

DMR currently provide both food & cauldrons during raids.  However this does not mean that you should not have any of your own food or flask buffs in your bags. If you miss the feast or the cauldron you will need to use your own buffs, so have them in your bags just in case.

Raid Breaks
We tend to have ONE break at about 22:00. This will last for a minimum of five minutes. If you go AFK at other times without obtaining permission from an officer in advance, you WILL be replaced.

Finally, an officer will in most circumstances have started the raid 20-30 minutes before the raid start.  Whisper any officer 'dmrinvite' to get an auto-invite to the raid group.  The starting raid team out from the calendar around 10 minutes before the raid start, so please do not leave it to the last minute to turn up! We will tend to prioritise those who confirmed attendance on the calendar over those who marked themselves as Tentative.  Remain in the raid and contactable (preferrably) via TS or guild chat so that we can swap people in and out to suit particular encounters.

Raiding Addons
There are a couple of essential addons that you are required to have installed if you wish to raid.  These addons assist you with boss encounters and also help the raid leaders as they present us with lots of essential information.

Firstly, you need to have installed a boss encounter addon. You can choose from Deadly Boss Mods, BigWigs and Deus Vox (DXE). You only need one of these installed, so pick your preferred one.

Next you will need oRA3. This will enable the raid leaders to see lots of info about your current status such as cooldowns.

Either Omen or Skada threat meter is required.

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Raid Pace

TS
TS is our most important raiding tool.  Chitchat during trash shouldn't be a problem so long as the trash doesn't require comms, but is offlimits during bosses unless you have a specific comms call to make. Other input is appreciated but during boss fights, unless it's absolutely critical to speak simply don't. For instance we don't really need to know that you're dead, we can generally see that in our raidframes by the big black gap amidst all the green.

Buffing and Pulling
When killing trash we go as fast as we can. We're not saying we need to chainpull through everything but if no one died then there's no reason not to pull next pack. Trash is boring, so let's get it done as quickly as possible.

Tactic talk
Role channels should be used to set healing assignments, tank roles, interrupt or CD rotation etc.  Try not to use TS for the mundane - if people need to know then they can join the appropriate channel.

If a boss is new, you will have already prepared for it as the forums will have flagged which bosses we are going to in the coming weeks.   It's your responsibility to be prepared so please do not expect to be spoon-fed.  If you do not know what to do then we might swap you out with someone who has put in the necessary preparation time.

Loot handling
Let's appoint people to do the ML role and also some additional DKP officers.  We do not need to do it and it slows the raid down when we have to wait for a tank or healer, let's appoints non-officer dps to do it!
Loot can be sorted while we carry on with trash. Loot should be posted to guild chat or you can check the corpse right after its death to see if there's anything you need. Wether there is or isn't, get to the next pull and rock on, keeping an eye on the loot announcements.

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DKP
We run a capped DKP system with an auto award set to award DKP at regular intervals.

• At 20:10 everyone in the raid, including standby members are awarded 1 DKP. Please be on time or you will miss out on this award!
• Every 30 minutes after this period the addon will auto award everyone in the raid 1 DKP. (This is why we have the standby members in the group, but not in the instance)
• Bidding will be handled by the addon and you can bid what you want for the item, there are no timelimits for these bids to prevent sniping and a call to end the bidding will be decided by the ML.
• You can bid more than you have up to -25 DKP for a single item transaction only. You will then have a negative number and will need to make that up before bidding again (So if something drops you really want, you won't lose out)
  
• The DKP cap is to be set at 100. Anyone going over this will have DKP deducted for the cap. This will prevent hording and encourage spending on loot.
• Offspec bids are restricted to 1 DKP until such time as it is clear no main spec requires the item.
• We automatically decay DKP.  RGT by 1 DKP per day, RGW by 4 DKP per week.  This rewards those with the required attendance levels.

• If you stop being an active raider and are moved to the social 'Friendly' rank then your current DKP will be reset to 0[/color]
  
  • If you sign up and dont turn up you will loose 7 DKP
  • Minimum DKP bid for a tier token is 10 DKP.[/color]
    
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  TeamSpeak Server Details
  Server IP: ts.storms-uk.com
  Nickname: NOT using player name might result in kick, same for non guilded ppl in guild (passworded) channels
  Set to Anonymous login
  Password: dMwTalking
  
  When you connect you'll be in the Beer Bar (default channel). Please switch to your chosen channel.
  
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  Guild Bank
  Council are responsible for handling requests for items from guild members and keeping the Guild Bank tidy and organised.  If you need anything from the Guild Bank, please speak to an officer.

[Whitey]

DKP

4: Not sure the best way to word it but we allow bids of 1 DKP for loot even if you are negative if no-one else bids.
8: I don't agree with this, that's why we have a decay.  
9: "If you sign up and dont turn up you will loose 7 DKP"  I would prefer something like "If you sign up and don't turn up or post that you can't make it in the attendance thread, you will loose 7 DKP".  At least that way someone stuck at work etc has the opportunity to let us know in advance without having DKP taken away.


Looks good otherwise.

[JonnyAppleSeed]

Dog house is still there....  its only ever been used for peeps that think they have accounts hacked and that's the only use I see for it .. regards raids then we would have already ejected them if they are found to be a clot

Rgw attendance target is the same as rgt 2/3 or 66%  over a 12 raid period

8... yeh the decay sorts out rank changes
9... I'm not so sure we need to put the 7 dkp fine back in. If it becomes an issue then yeh but I don't think either raid team has problems (less admin)

Quatermaster - no need a dead rank in the index at the top


This new testament shall be etched into my rockery. I will stand atop the largest of the mounds and preach it every patch day.....

ps I don't see any rule about fighting on stairs ?

[Whitey]

ps I don't see any rule about fighting on stairs ?

or blaming JAS! :narnar: