Not Like This

[Gandalf]

Is there a tool on this site where you can see who has logged on or who hasn't logged on in a long time or like ever since they made their original app?

Only in the admin console. But this is a very good idea. I will see if there is an easy way of extracting this data and posting it up in the officers area so we can monitor this.
 

Good pleased to hear it. You and the officers need to be hard on us all and if it's not in your nature then recruit a (delete as applicable) 'bad news you're out/you suck/you don't not have the required IQ of an amoeba to understand tictacs' (oke maybe not that harsh but you get my drift and underlying annoyance at our current situation) class leader who wouldn't think twice about delivering the message.

You know, you're right. It's not in my nature. I am an easy going person and I don't like upsetting people. But in reality it's just never going to work, so I will find someone who can do this as it sure does need doing.

[Gandalf]

This i am glad to hear mate:)

but i dont mean to step out of line or anything but this problem needs to be resolved as soon as possible, or over the next few raids if we keep going the way we are the whole thing is going to fall apart. I for one and, i know everyone else does not want this to happen, but after pouring over the logs from last night and previous raids, and with also a bit of guidence from TL i have brought my haste rating from 394 to 541 and that has brought my dps up on the target dummys in IF by a extra 500:)

We sure will, it'll be sorted for Sunday. I am in the process of summarising all the posts in this thread from everyone and I want you all to continue posting up your thoughts and concerns, no matter how minor.

Great to hear about your DPS increase Lets hope some others take note and follow your example.

[DannagE]

Good posts from everyone.

Think a good plan is to get people learning tactics in 10man raids. They are easier to do, but whilst doing them people can be tutored as to what they are doing wrong because it will be easier to see in 10man than 25.

We've got a good individuals but somewhere we are just not working as a team in 25 man.

I'm well up for more 10 man runs. But they need to be mixed up teams more often to teach people, not just the same bunch going. I know the same 1337's going means easier runs and loot but the guild needs training!!

:taz:

[Gandalf]

Good posts from everyone.

Think a good plan is to get people learning tactics in 10man raids. They are easier to do, but whilst doing them people can be tutored as to what they are doing wrong because it will be easier to see in 10man than 25.

We've got a good individuals but somewhere we are just not working as a team in 25 man.

I'm well up for more 10 man runs. But they need to be mixed up teams more often to teach people, not just the same bunch going. I know the same 1337's going means easier runs and loot but the guild needs training!!

:taz:

Yes we could train during raids, however this is our problem. That is exactly what we seem to be doing for some members.

Really, there are plenty of videos out there and it doesn't take too long to watch them so you can get an idea of the fight. But it appears that we still have people who just don't know what to do in certain fights.

I don't want to have to spend ten minutes at the start of each fight talking over tactics, everyone should know them. We should rock up to the boss, full rebuff if required and then get stuck in once targets are assigned.

[Bastet]

We had a bunch of new players coming from Eye of Ra (that's the name right?) who became socials at once. I'm confident there's more talent to be found amongst them

Most of those that want to raid are allready doing so. But there is a problem with most of us. We only ever cleared to start of ulduar 10 man (kolo was as far as we got), so there is quiet a gear deficit to make up. Speaking for myself it is coming along, but not nearly as fast as i would want it to.
 
On the flip side, i have been speaking to Athuran, and he has been a great help. Between the two of us i managed to crank my dps up by about 500, but my gear is letting me down at the moment. :sideways:

[TeaLeaf]

Gear is something I can understand, but it is worth reminding people that you can get badges outside of the TOC instance too.  Ulduar at best provided i226 items and you can equal and beat this by:

Buying i226 gear with Badges of Conquest that drop from any dungeons that previously dropped Emblems of Heroism or Valor, such as Naxxramas or Heroic Halls of Stone.  A few in-guild Naxx clears or heroic runs buys you a lot of 'equivalent to best Ulduar gear' very quickly.

Both the 10 and 25 player instances of the Crusaders' Coliseum drop Emblems of Triumph so you get a lot per run.

The heroic dungeon daily quest gives 2 Emblems of Triumph and the normal daily dungeon quest gives 1 Emblem of Triumph.  It took on my pala & Garrit healing about 10 minutes to do the daily heroic in UK today and we're 2 Emblems oif Triumph to the better for it.

Ulduar - i226 loot (yes it goes a little higher on HM and end bosses - i232 & i239)
Emblems of Conquest - i226 loot
Emblems of Triumph - i245 loot or use it to buy i232/i245 tier 9 set items

Bottom line is nobody should be struggling hugely through lack of gear as badges should bring most slots up to a decent iLevel.  You can get 4 pieces of Tier 8 (Ulduar) gear without ever setting foot into Ulduar, simply by grinding out Heroics and getting a couple of lucky drops from Emalon. To get the Tier 8 hat and gloves, you would need a combined total of 116 badges. At roughly four badges per Heroic, that's just shy of 30 Heroics. That sounds like a lot, but isn't a lot at all.

[Tirkad]

I saw very nice and constructive posts here, but before adding my 2 cents, i have to make a little premise.
Garrit, i really know how you feel, trust me. It's the very same feeling i had a couple of months ago when we had the members problem and we kept boosting (let's call things with their proper names) people in greens and lvl 70 blues into Ulduar 25 becouse it seemed we didn't have any other choice. I was really frustrated by that, becouse i was feeling like we had people in party who really didn't care about the other guild members being burdened like that, and didn't bother in gearing up outside the instance like TL remembered in the post below. I asked myself the very same questions you do now, Garrit, and i was invited in a quite hardcore guild by some friends there. However, i realized that i do not want to join an hardcore guild again, if i don't know the people who are in, becouse i really had bad experiences in one of them. So i kept my good attitude in raids, without caring about the lack of progress and about all the wipes, and on the opposite, giving my best to do my part, trusting the officers and their choice, believing that i was doing my part for the guild overall progress.

I don't want to comment the raid progress with rants or pointing fingers, but i'd like to put in evidence some points:

• As Garrit and Gandalf pointed out, there are 2 ranks in the guild, raider and social. I want people to know that those ranks don't imply a difference in how the guild member is treated, they have both the same value in terms of community, but the raider have responsibilities he MUST attend to. Every raider has to give his best in order to let the raid succeed. And by his best i don't mean just spending money to have the best flasks/gems/enchants/food before the raid starts, but to prepare himself/herself to play his/her class as close to the best he/she can get. This is a tough work, becouse it implies a lot of time spent on trying every single variation in the rotation, check forums, asking for helps, analysing and deeply knowing every single spell in their spellbook, realizing when you can use each spell with the best effectiveness. This will show the other party members your value as a raider and your will to make this guild progress.
  
• About the 10 men raids, i really had some nice time last wed, when in a couple of mins more than 2 hours we downed onyxia and cleared the whole ToC, with the remarkable success of being just 10 seconds late for the speed kill on the twins (my deepest gratitude to all the raiders: You rock!), maybe that was becouse we went with just me and jim healing, so there were 6 dps instead of the usual 5, but still. However, maybe in our situation we have to use another strategy. I was thinking about having a 10 men raid planned during an offday where 2 or 3 members will be asked to attend with their class leader who will follow them very closely, checking every bit of their rotation and their movements in fight and giving suggestion that must be kept in the utmost consideration by the player. I know the group will not enjoy the 10 men steamrolling for that week, but i think it's a good idea to improve the pace of the 25 men raids.
• Last but not least, as Gandalf suggested, i really approve a more dynamic promoting/demoting in ranks. This is for the guild sake, since we can't have among raiders people who do not want to be raiders. Again, being social it's not something bad, it's another way to enjoy the game, and if you don't want to spend time or you feel bad with the amount of pressure a raider have to stand to, trust me, that's the rank you want be in this guild, it will be much more fun for you to play wow, and you'll still enjoy every single aspect of this wonderful community.

Just my 2 cents.

[Sithvid]

mmm. Some constructive points.
Again the same 10 or so people commenting what about the other 15 or so?

I think the moaning is getting a bit much tbh. If someone isnt performing tell them direct, at the right time.
Feedback is a gift sometimes hard to give, harder, to receive. Feedback in a scatter gun style in a forum not read by all intended, is not feedback at all.
You may feel better but unless you change behaviour, the outcome will not change.
I read this and think was it me ? am I one of the intended?
Did my actions or inactions cause a wipe, cause 5 wipes? am I not being healed now because I suck ? I know I messed up one colour change.

Officers, I have mentioned this before, you are tactical leaders, i.e. you lead very effectively through the tactics of the fights.
You can delegate feedback, personality and other social issues.

[JonnyAppleSeed]

The thing is we all need to look at our toons and find how to improve. Thorim fight is a good example most of our the damage is in the 3-4k area ... seeing some logs with our gear it should be around 8-10k. Its a case of using the fight mechanics. So its not a small improvement these are a massive boost and we need to abuse them.

[Tirkad]

The thing is we all need to look at our toons and find how to improve. Thorim fight is a good example most of our the damage is in the 3-4k area ... seeing some logs with our gear it should be around 8-10k. Its a case of using the fight mechanics. So its not a small improvement these are a massive boost and we need to abuse them.

I agree with you. That's why i suggested to organize some ulduar10 runs with fixed classes. We can't train in heroics since the bosses will be dead before even finishing the first round of the rotation or blow up the first proc, so i think if we spend a night in ulduar with for example 3 warriors and 3 hunters (classes chosen randomly just to put up the example) as dps, the raiders will have an easier time to compare their gameplay and to fix anything should be fix, improve their rotation, spec, and so on, since they will experience the very same buffs/debuffs and the very same combat situation.

[Whitey]

I agree with you. That's why i suggested to organize some ulduar10 runs with fixed classes. We can't train in heroics since the bosses will be dead before even finishing the first round of the rotation or blow up the first proc, so i think if we spend a night in ulduar with for example 3 warriors and 3 hunters (classes chosen randomly just to put up the example) as dps, the raiders will have an easier time to compare their gameplay and to fix anything should be fix, improve their rotation, spec, and so on, since they will experience the very same buffs/debuffs and the very same combat situation.

I really like the idea of that.  I'm new to most of the fights we've been having recently and although I've looked at the videos of the fights before hand, it can't fully prepare you for them.  Having a chance to go through them first on 10 man would give the practical experience.  Even if they were organised on an off night.

[Mat]

Sithvid:
Im not talking on behalf of other "15", but if it comes to me about commenting stuff, I am not very talkative person, and english isnt my first language. Both dont make me very comfortable with long comments
Secondly, most I'd like to say is alredy mentioned above, so comment "Yes I agree, and not going to type it again" is just silly. Anyway, I keep myself updated with our forum all the time, as I care much about our community stuff

Mat

[Sleepyy]

Normally i dont write much in forums but ill give it a go.

ive read all the comments from the people on here and with most of those complaints ive got to agree with unfortunatly. totally understand why garrit got ****ed off about the whole raiding as a guild as thats one of my reasons why i started to raid less lately.

What i miss in the raid mainly is listening, not only from raiders but also from officers/classleaders to their raiders. No teamwork what so ever and lots of people not anticipating on the fights.

on top of that i see people around:

- d/c  each  10 min, well i guess you wont like the d/c either but guess how it is for 24 people waiting AGAIN for you getting back up. think its quite normal that somebody d/c once and a while but having 15+ d/c on a raid isnt normal in my opinion.
- people not fully enchanting and gemming.
- people not moving out on the so called fire
- people not flasking up.
- people not  gettting in there repaired so they have to go repair after 1-2 wipes.
- people not bringing or dont bring enough reagents with them.
- same for pots , flask and food buffs.

basicly alot of people in the raid severly underperforming (which could be a result already from one of the above mentioned points also)
I could mention alot of names with that but in my opinion that should be taken care of by the officers/classleaders to check on those points and take actions to the person, with a warning and if things dont get any better even a remove from the raid.

Its kinda hard for me to keep on being motivated  when i give 200% in a fight and the person next to me doesnt give a flying :ranting2: to move out of the so called fire.
I dont mind wiping at all, as ive done my share of wiping in the last 5 years of raiding.I do mind bashing my head pointlessly to a brick wall!!
In other words officers/classleaders need to step up and do what they are assigned for or quite frankly there wont be a raid group left anymore to lead if this goes on the way it goes now.

Thats my complaints/opinions as a raider / ex-officer / ex-raidleader.

[smite]

Only in the admin console. But this is a very good idea. I will see if there is an easy way of extracting this data and posting it up in the officers area so we can monitor this.

 
Make a post listing all Raiding members, ask them all to respond with an "Aye" and delete them from the list or put replied next to it. The people who do not respond within a set time get demoted to social or Dog Bin. These people have to reply on the forum to gain back the Raider status, if they do not they don't raid.
 
Also Why not name and shame? If you want to have the raider (Raider badge meaning i really want to help the guild progress and take it seriously) badge and get good gear then you will have to take it on the chin if your not pulling your weight. I would get angry, get upset and then sort myself out if i was causing an issue in a raid. If people quit then your better off without them.
 
These are both points that should be taken if you want to seriously raid, if not choose social. Yes they may seem harsh but it should get the results you require.
 
Good post though brings up all the points that were annoying me and why i stopped rading for a while But hey im a tank thats easy

[Mezzanine]

Also Why not name and shame? If you want to have the raider (Raider badge meaning i really want to help the guild progress and take it seriously) badge and get good gear then you will have to take it on the chin if your not pulling your weight. I would get angry, get upset and then sort myself out if i was causing an issue in a raid. If people quit then your better off without them.

I don't agree with this method. I consider it bullying. Issues should be resolved individually, between the eyes of the raider and the class leader. That's why I rather have the CLs take care of it before people are starting to shout out names on the forum, on TS or in raid chat.