Raid 20.04.2010

[Whitey]

World of Logs
WoW Meter Online

[Leemo]

Interesting Data!

Here's DPS done to a Burning Skeleton on our last attempt (cut tanks and hunters out):

PlayerAmount
Amethystra     238,929      15.5 %
Kained     236,707      15.4 %
Aldaren     138,927      9.0 %
Athuran     133,325      8.7 %
Zanidis     130,426      8.5 %
Baldavenger  109,124      7.1 %
Maldaror     80,845      5.3 %
Izzen     79,898      5.2 %
Dillinja     49,172      3.2 %
Whitéy     43,009      2.8 %
Vanguish     41,384      2.7 %
Limpsy     30,968      2.0 %
Sithysithvid   28,181      1.8 %

Interesting to see such a wide spread in DPS applied to this particular Skeleton (238k to 28k) - any ideas as to why?

[sheepy]

i would venture the idea of positioning

[Whitey]

Interesting to see such a wide spread in DPS applied to this particular Skeleton (238k to 28k) - any ideas as to why?

You would need to see what else was up at the time and were everyone else was in relation to the Skeleton. I assume it must have been on the right as Aldaren and Athuran where on the right and had high dps (I was covering left but helped with Skeletons on right when no high priority on left).  The same would apply to the ranged who were split left and right.

I don't see why there should be as much of a difference on the ranged who were in the middle though (maybe some worms up at same time?).

[Leemo]

Had a quick scan through attempts 11, 10, 8 and 9, the pattern is often repeated.

Sith, Vanguish, Dill are regularly at the bottom - not meant as a pointless dig - just wondering if they're aware of the DPS priority?

[Aldaren]

Confident people are aware of the dps priority. Vaguely remember Jim spamming it the odd time or 10

We did position a lock and a mage to separate sides though. Forget who though. In terms of ranged though would have expected them to be even ish on skellies since we stuck them in the middle.

[Leemo]

Picked an abomination from attempt number 5 - Sith did most damage to it by far, with 760k. Then Vanguish after the tank on 644K.

Obviously, this is limited information, it doesn't tell us everything going on.

However, on the same Abomination our top Skeleton DPSers (Ameth, Kained etc) barely touched it by comparison (taking off 2.8% and 3.6% of the Abomination's HP respectively)

This would suggest to me that some of the DPS aren't clear on the kill order.

(Link here, click 'Damage By Actor tab', then look at 'Damage taken from': http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2rz9m71gf9emjgtn/details/43/?s=1674&e=2048)

[Vanguish]

I would like to say something as i see my name mentioned in these posts
I was standing on the left side where i was placed by the raidleaders
At some point in the fights yesterday there was nothing on the leftside to attack, so when an abomination was coming at the left side i went and attacked it, cause there was nothing else to attack on the left side
 
And i know the priority list of what to attack, so when i was attacking an abomination and there came a skellie i went over to dps the skelly or worms or whatever on the prio list that needed to be attacked
 
But it was my first time in this fight so i might sometimes got overwhelmed by what was thrown at us :lmfao:
 
Just to let you guys know my opinion on the matter
 
Vanguish

[Leemo]

Yes Van - there we see the limitations of the random samples I'd picked out.

With Van's comment in mind, perhaps it would be better to pull the locks and mages that had been assigned to left/right into the main range DPS pack?

I don't know what else could account for the huge disparity on Skeleton nukage - perhaps the snare from Frostbolts?

What do you guys think?

[DFE]

Guys,
I wasnt there but I quite like to go through the logs and based on the data there I can imagine what was going there quite well. I took a look at damage by ranged, except for the hunters.
Twelve tries are quite enough to actually learn the encounter so I wouldnt say that "I was there for the first time" is NOT a big factor here. The tactics have been explained and after 3 wipes everybody should be familiar with the encounter - especially if one try lasts for roughly 5 minutes and there is only one phase.
Also twelve tries are enough to even out things like "I was unlucky with mob x spawned right when I was doing action Y / affected by spell Z"
Over the course of twelve tries, the percentage of total damage on individual types of should be the roughly the same except for two cases:

1) the player has been assigned a special task
2) the player does his stuff wrong

I made a table with percentages of total damage by mob types. And the numbers are really too much different accross people.

   Skeleton |   Suppresser | Abomination |   Worm | Archmage |   Zombie
Sith   3.1%   4.8%   46.8%   23.7%   11.1%   10.5%
Vanguish   3.40%   25.80%   37.20%   5.50%   20.30%   7.70%
Kained   13.60%   17.90%   19.60%   19.70%   23.40%   5.80%
Malrador   11.90%   17.30%   19.80%   6.90%   35.50%   8.60%
Dillinja   5.00%   18.50%   19.00%   5.00%   18.20%   31.20%
Limpsy   7.60%   21.70%   12.70%   28.50%   12.80%   16.80%
Zanidis   12.90%   8.10%   10.30%   7.70%   27.10%   33.90%

Sith: It looks like he has been assigned to kill abominations (47% of his total damage), while he was almost ignoring the most dangerous mobs: Supressers (5%) and Skeletons (3%). He was doing good job on worms, though (24%)
Vanguish: Dedicated to Abominations (37%), ignored Skeletons (3%). Very good job on Supressers (26%).
Dillinja: Looks to me that his/her task was to help hunters with Zombies (31%). Very low damage on Skeletons (5%). Good job on Suppressers (18%)
Kained: If everybody was doing like he is... well, we would be doing hard modes now. 12% on Skeleteons, and around 20% on Supressers, Worms, Aboms.
Malrador: Also VERY good performance with good damage distribution
Zanidis: Very good job on Skeletons (13%). It seems that he has been assigned to help hunters with zombies (34%) when there was no skeleton (also judged by relatively low damage on Supressers - 8%.
Limpsy: a little bit lower damage on Skeleton than Kained, Malrador and Zan (8%) but this could be because he was assigned one side and was not in the middle DPS camp - in this case I have no objections. Otherwise it is very good, too.

I hope noone is going to be offended but if we want to progress, we have to recognize where we can improve. I hope this helped a bit

[Leemo]

Thanks for taking the time to look at the total numbers, Dfe, it's a lot more helpful than the random samples I'd picked out.

As far as I know, Vanguish and Dill were assigned to left/right to assist the melee teams, to prevent either melee team being overrun at any point. Which seemed like a reasonable precaution at the time.

Regarding the warlocks, the assistance on the Blistering Zombies is probably welcome, especially considering the kiter deaths we encountered.

However - having been in the raid, I know that no DPS was assigned to only attack the Abominations and ignore the normal priority.

In addition, we very rarely had a shout from one of the tanks that he had too many abominations and the call to burn down an Abomination was very rare (as it should be).

This would suggest to me either - a misunderstanding on the tactics, or problems with the DPS switching targets quickly for such a sustained period.

In my mind it reinforces the need to get ALL the ranged DPS (except kiters) into on mega-nuke mob to kill Skeletons ASAP.

[Leemo]

As a side note - watched some other guilds save Dreamwalker on Youtube today. Seems some guilds packed more healers - up to 8-9.

Also - some don't seem to kite the Blistering Zombies, just nuke them down.

However, the best thing I've seen is one guild using Frost Traps on the path that the Suppressors run in on.

This means they never actually touch Dreamwalker, which is pure win.

[DFE]

Also - some don't seem to kite the Blistering Zombies, just nuke them down.

Well, :just nuke them down means everyone within 15 yards is getting 15K + 20x1K (unresisted) damage. Seems to me a LOT of avoidable damage. Off course, we can do some variation of kiting and nuking: kite it away from melee and then ranged nuke it (low priority)

However, the best thing I've seen is one guild using Frost Traps on the path that the Suppressors run in on. This means they never actually touch Dreamwalker, which is pure win.

did you mean this? our Valithria wipe
Though, there is a little limitation to this: if the trap is in the middle (meaning front-back direction) then the suppressers trespass the trap only marginally from both sides. If it is slightly in front or in the back, one part of supressers might miss it completely while the other part gets slowed so that they never get to Valithria

[Leemo]

Yeah, I see the Frost Trap down at 48 seconds there.

The one I watched this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4vddIfKg2c

If you pause it at 4 mins 50 seconds, you can see the trap on the stone pillar, pretty much, bit closer to the spawn point than our trap.

This gave the ranged loads of time to nuke Suppressors.

[DFE]

Yeah, I see the Frost Trap down at 48 seconds there.

Well, there were 8 of them in the entire encounter, some were chained

The one I watched this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4vddIfKg2c
If you pause it at 4 mins 50 seconds, you can see the trap on the stone pillar, pretty much, bit closer to the spawn point than our trap

But if you place the trap like they did and the suppresseres come from other side of the pillar, then they are not affected at all. If you place it in the middle, it also slows skeletons and it begins its channelling later, so does archmage and it might help with zombie as well.

I dont think we really need the frost trap dedicated for kiting purposes, we have Concussive shot, Disengage, Feign Death... It really serves better for slowing down other adds