Start of Cata raiding discussions

[sheepy]

The officers had a bit of a chat a few nights ago about raiding direction in cata, now we want to know, what do you want.

Do you want to go down the 10 or 25 man route?
What are your ambitions?
how can we help you progress?
What are your fears?

tell us now so we can get discussing things properly

[lunares]

Do you want to go down the 10 or 25 man route?
  At the start I guess it will be 10 mans since people will be leveling.
  Once this is done I personally would like to see the 25 man route again
 
What are your ambitions?
  Top ambition: HAVE FUN
  Second: Pick up raiding again and clear the content whilst being a contributing player
 
how can we help you progress?
  As a guild the members should help each other in the guild instance wise or crafting wise. (with the emphasis on the 5 man  instances)
 
What are your fears?
  Due to the difference in leveling speed, the fast levelers will go seek their raiding elsewhere so raiding will not start at all in Dmr.
  Also the normal expansions fears, ppl switching guild etc.
  The fear that people in the guild stay isolated, while a group of persons has all the fun. (I see this now a bit as well. Some persons have a group within the guild which does all and the rest needs to PUG or donââ,¬â,,¢t do it. If that will keep up a lot in cata it can splinter the guild.
   
  The new expansion does bring certain merits with regards to the recruiting; loads of persons want to raid again.
   
  As with what toon I want to raid. I will start out with my priest but I might shelf that toon due to boredom or other classes appeal more to me.
   
  Lunares

[JonnyAppleSeed]

still not sure what toon to go with   ... nows the time if ya wanting to change mains

would love to hit 25 asap with a strong teams doing 10 man tho that's after the grind

[Deminion]

Currently i'm stuck to choose between warrior, druid, and warlock to be the first at 85, thoose seems like the most decent specc when hitting max lvl again.

As for raiding, i would prefer to go strong on 10-mans,, since it should be easier to make a couple of grps for that. Perhaps get recruitment going for cata preparation?

Otherwise i'm kinda on the same footing as Luna.

[TeaLeaf]

Remember the BIGGEST change is that the 10 & 25 man raids are on the SAME raidid, so you will NOT be able to do a 25 man and a 10 man in the same week on the same toon.  The other change worth nothing is the ilevel of the loot is the same whether you do 10 or 25 man, you just get more loot drops on 25 man raids (for obvious reasons).

So, the 10 or 25 question is quite a tricky one.

[Seventails]

I think its best to kick off doing 10 mans, when we have enough raiders doing 25 man.

There will be a lot of 10 man guilds out there. Cause why would you wanna go 25 man with 3 loots while u can progress in 10 mans faster with just 2 loots. Its hard to come up with idea's, so here are mine..

The reasons I can think of (currently) is:
- having a big group where all members can be part of the raiding team,
- the vibe of 15 more players inside the raid and the feeling/rush by going 25 instead of a minimal 10 man
- More different opinions (mind the 40 man raids back in vanilla... that was awesome..! Also a big rotation of classes, (bad thing: bigger chance of whiping if 1 person messes up (remember: c'thun)).
- I think it will be unique having a 25 man group going

The reasons of going 10 man might be:
- Faster progression
- Steady group
- Easier to get to know each other and their raiding behavior

With 10 mans there are less chances for a person to raid. People will not feel like they're a part from the raid group if they finally get a spot.. The tension to go with the same group during 10 mans is higher than with 25 mans. Some will leave and find another guild where they will be allowed to raid. There shouldn't be a steady raiding spot during 10 mans to avoid this tension.
To avoid all this, going 25 man and have more equal opportunities to raid aswell as swap out members might give some benefits

Apart from that, I don't mind going 25 or 10 but fairwise I would say, go 25 man and get some rotation going.

[Sithvid]

The officers had a bit of a chat a few nights ago about raiding direction in cata, now we want to know, what do you want.

Do you want to go down the 10 or 25 man route?
I think numbers dictate that only 10 man is viable currently.
What are your ambitions?
To raid at an agreed time, with a well balanced motivated group and to have fun
how can we help you progress?
Support the guild and the people in it.  
What are your fears?
Another OVO experience, at the time i agreed it was for the best, but the way some regulars were overlooked, went against the ethos of dmw imho. Playing ARMA2 and L4d awoke how inclusive we should be. In fact one of the reasons many join/stay with Dmw.
That the "core" ( count yourself as "core" then read again as non core and see if your opinion changes) Raiders progress and leave others behind as in the last 6 months.
Unfortunately the core get bored frustrated and lose patience when non core are not at the same level.
Running 10 mans on non raid days with select groups and then on raid days having core players locked. Then non core members locking their mains to help core alts progress.
Core players going for HC mode in elite groups when other parts of the guild are overlooked and some want to get LK down.
I think its not the acheivement but the fact that you finish the game.
Core players not signing up but getting into raids because of... whatever, at the expense of others.
tell us now so we can get discussing things properly

Set up a proper rota so players know they will get to raid, in advance.
If dmR run 2 raids a week an A team and B Team based on balance, (apparently you need both healz and tankz!) but had different sign up times so some could raid 4 nights (as they do now on 2 toons in fact some used to raid 5 nights a week) you increase the numbers getting involved. Raids on Sun Tue Wed Thur. Is asking to raid 2 nights a week is more viable than 3 ? Balance the raid groups hunters druids are not over subscribed then, use cata as an opportunity.
Nothing personal to anyone in dmr please read this as constructive, as is my intent.

[Knabbel]

For now I like the 10 men.. somehow I have the feeling the group is mroe relaxed and not whining all the time.

[gijs]

10 man runs get my vote atm, simply cos its easier to organise/manage and maintain.
 
for my choice of main toon im going for my DK for now...i like the chance of going DPS or tank with 1 toon.
So when Cata hits the stores im going heavy DK for a week (planning on taking a week off from work) hoping to hit 85 within that time.
 
Zyrtek FTW ;-)

[Tirkad]

As has been said more than once, the biggest change sees the 10 and 25 men raids share their ID. In addition you can swap raids if they're saved at the very same point.
I've already had a chat with jas about it a couple of months ago, and i think the 10 men is the way to go, at least in the start. It is out of doubts that a 10 men raid can be organized and managed faster and with less troubles then a 25 men one. However there are some delicate points that i think will need furhter discussion.
If we want to ensure the progress and the related gear up that comes for it, we should have a solid 10 men group. I think that will be easily achieved within the first 2 weeks. The problems will come once the first group is up and other people will start hitting 85: will you interrupt the progress to allow brand new lvl 85 to start their raids (throwing back the progress for a while), wait for them to sort another 10 men group (it could take a while and they may get bored in the while), are you planning in dividing the raids into 2 categories (farming and progress) so that relatevely inexperienced players can focus on training in the encounters already mastered by the others while waiting for their spot in the progress raids, or do you have another solution?
To me, the dual pace raids (farm and progress) sounds best, since it will allow the most people to have some fun in raid at the same time, while on the other hand they'll gear up and get the feeling of the cata raids (to avoid what happened to the dmr in ulduar 25, raiding in lvl70 blues). With the change allowing us to swap raids if they share the same situation (in boss killed, i guess) it will be easier to split already experienced people in more raids to help out freshly dinged 85 players on the farm night, while having a solid experienced progress team focused on -surprise surprise- progress. Of course the members will be both promoted to the progress team, and demoted from it, following their performance and attending valued on the officers standards (in order to avoid nasty situations occurred to us in the last months).
Once we'll have a good pool of about 30 players experienced in the raids, we'll be able to switch to 25 men raids, or maybe alternating them with 10 men raids, depending on the availability of the members and the recruitment status. Once again, since the 25 men shares their id to the 10 men, and since everyone can enter a raid if it's saved at the same time, it should be flexible enough to allow it.

Speaking about me, i think i'll have fun in raids like i always did, but i'd like to spend some time on pvp this time, i already had some fun with a couple of rl friends of mine, and i hope i'll keep on enjoying it (i suck at it, but it was fun ).

Well, that's what i think about it, what i fear and the solution i think will best suit to the guild in this very moment. I really hope it helped.