Noreia

[Whitey]

I had sent a PM to Noreia after him not showing up again for the last raid.

Can you please make sure that if you sign up for a raid that you attend  it or at the very least post in the attendance thread on the forum that  you can't make it.  There have been a few raids recently that you have  accepted the raid and not been there for raid start and we can't afford  for this to happen with the holiday season approaching.  
Also your  attendance is currently under the minimum raid requirements for RGT and  if it doesn't improve we will need to change you to social.

and the reply

Hey, guess I 'll be back to normal from Tuesday onwards.
Regards

Noreia                   

I meant to post this here earlier but TL's post on Switch reminded me

[TeaLeaf]

Blown fuse now replaced.
Bumping this topic for Sunday chat & tacking on a Mythmaster.

[TeaLeaf]

Warning about attendance was given (?by Whitey) and since then he has made every raid.  Discussion on TS agreed it was fair to give the chance to continue to bring his attendance figures up to scratch.

[Whitey]

Last Tuesday Noreia wiped us twice on Ragnaros by hitting the wrong son (exactly the same mistake both times hitting 7 instead of 2).
Tonight he had issues with interrupts on Alys and standing on the wrong site of meteor for wind phase.

How long do we keep carrying him?

[TeaLeaf]

Beth'tilac
Fell down again
11.5k dps compared to rest of raid at 15.9-20.3 dps

Baleroc
Very poor dps
Poor crystal movement

Ragnaros
Repeated left/right confusion
Died to melee on pull

....and now the biggest problem:

Lately, as we have been working on heroic attempts... The frustration over wipes made by Noreia has casted a big shadow over my raiding experience.
He is a terrible raider. RGT progression is FAAAR slower than it should be because of this. Im not hardcore, raiding only two days per week.. I like fun. Wiping a zillion times on same mistakes made by the same player is not fun.

It topped off yesterday in the Ragnaros fight where TL said on TS.. "Battleress Noreia".
When I start thinking "Please no, he will in someway kill kimself or others before we manage to get the boss down".. When he died again after this, I was reliefed.. he didnt take anyone down with me.. He has 5-6 raggy kills now, and everytime a meteor is on to him.. its a kill or a wipe..
I know that I cant raid like this, when this is the easiest of the 5 bosses we are wiping on these days.
My raid energy just disapears when I am in a group with 8 excellent raiders... and one awful raider. And thats not the way It should be.

I know there is lots of frustration, I know that TL, as the excellent raid leader he is, is adressing this by extended explanations and conversations with Noreia.
But the number of wipes.. the feeling of... whatever tricks we pull out... he will wipe us... that feeling is not good.

I will however, keep my attendance up through the raids Ive signed up for. But for the future of raiding; I have to figure out if its worth 7 hours per week hoping he isnt in the boss fights. I know Im not the only one that is really frustrated. I know you can feel it aswell, and I know that you have had whispers from other raiders. Us raiders also talk amongst ourselves.

Maybe a transfer to RGW could be an idea for me instead of taking a break? Well, we will see. Now you know my feelings towards this atlesat.... It felt good share this; I really really would like to NOT have Noreia in the same raidgroup as me!

Thank you for your time.
-Slush.

We all know Noreia is struggling and I think we need to use this as the final straw.  

I think it is time to ask Noreia to step down and not raid with RGT in 4.3. I'll volunteer to have the chat with him and I suggest we recruit one more melee to replace him.

[JonnyAppleSeed]

Its horrible but we have to do it ... for the sanity of everyone else.

[TeaLeaf]

I have sent a PM to Noréia asking for a chat on TS tonight before the raid.  It is predominantly to make sure that the Noréia:Slush clash is stopped and that they both understand that vigilante action is not an acceptable way of doing things. We'll choose a better moment to discuss him stepping down once we have the personality clash sorted (and hopefully a new recruit found).

[TeaLeaf]

His reponse.

Noréia & Slush

Before the raid I would like to talk to you both on TS please.   I think we have some issues to discuss.

cc to DMR Council for info

Yep, agree! I will only be back at raid times on Thursday next week. But I am online in between all the time.
Btw my absence is completely independant from the Slush issue.

Let me phrase one or two statements upfront:

1) I have not, not at all started this! I had to response because of the totally unacceptable tone!  
2) After you and Whitey made clear to me several month ago, that I have to prepare myself better, in order to stay in the raid group, I definitely did. IN ICC, slacking and waiting for being pampered was ok, in Cata impossible/unacceptable.

With the help of the world of logs I learned the hard way that I am not always up to the task (nobody likes to acknowledge stuff like that) and I am absolutely sure that you guys know it. Still you kept me in the group even though Grimnar (and obviously others) sometimes swallowed his hat. Be rest assured I am always prepared, you know, that I am always potted, that I am always intime and I ask when something is not clear, even though it is totally embarrassing like two weeks ago the left / right feebleness.
Before that event my name was not mentioned particularly in chat during raiding for weeks, and as you say yourself: a good sign! I have been on several first kills including heroics. But I have limitations and I know it.

What is also very clear to me, that I am always observed by certain people. That really takes away the fun in raiding. In contrary to Slush, I am doing this for fun and I mean this.
Consequently, when I went through the logs of the nine wipes from Tuesday, I found out, that they were caused six times by an early demise of the tank. My totem was up 75% (which is not enough ofc) all the time and not 50%.
From the three attempts which ran into the enrage I was doing even the third most dps on one attempt. On many attempts also excellent players like Grim sucked dps wise. Yes I moved out and in on a crystal once, but why? Some guy thought he had to push me away though I was standing right next to the appearing crystal, ready to soak. Why? Guess, he does not take me for a real full member, I am the weak one in the eyes of not only one. Slush is just the tactful person to put it into his own harsh words.

Guildwise, he should leave that to the council and leaders.

I tried to de-escalate the issue but obviously that inflamed him even more. I dont know if the only reason is my performance but he wants to get rid of me badly. That is clear, I guess.

The recent events shows a bit, that the DMR philosophy of having a semi - hardcore raid grp has most probably changed.

If you would remove me from the raid grp, I would understand, as I am almost sure that there will be an uproar right away when I 'll do the next mistake.
And we both know: I definitely will!!!

These are my thoughts and believe me: I am very unhappy about this as I loved raiding with you guys.

Nor

[TeaLeaf]

And mny response.

We spoke to Slush last night and told him his outburst was unacceptable.  He should apologise to you next time he sees you online, we do not want any member dealing with another member in that way and he understands this.  That having been said, we still need a chat when you are back to go over things as some of the concerns he raised were fair comment (even if he did it in an unacceptable way).  We'll wait for your return and we can talk then.

See you next Thursday.

[TeaLeaf]

Saw Nor online today with an alt when I re-posted guild epics on AH.  Got him to jump on TS and we had a 45 min chat.  The notes I had prepared with Jas were:

•   Offer apology for the way Slush has treated him on the forums
o   Explain we are dealing with it
•   Slush’s comments however are factually correct
o   Your poor performance is causing friction in the raid
o   It is just a game, but it’s 9 hours each week of people’s time
o   Needs to make sure he knows fights & mechanics beforehand
o   Left & right paper if he has trouble
o   50% uptime on dots for example
ï,§   Know your rotation well enough that movement does not affect it
o   Recognition of dynamic changes in fight
ï,§   E.g. Crystal spawns on you & you are not debuffed, take it don’t run away!
ï,§   Falling down on Beth
ï,§   Dying at pull as in melee range
•   Stood in exactly same place again at next pull
o   DPS is woefully low for his gear level
ï,§   I377 equipped
ï,§   Only one piece T11, all other gear is 378 or higher
ï,§   Has 4 set T12 bonus
ï,§   Other enh shaman are doing much better with the same gear
o   If we don’t see a significant improvement immediately, then we’re not confident he will cope with T13 content with RGT

We discussed all of this and he recognises that he is not coping with the speed we raid at and takes longer to adapt to fights and does not perform as well.  He recognises all the other bits and despite trying to improve knows that he is brimming and not able to keep up with the pace of advancement or the level of performance in RGT.

He knows that he will not have a spot in RGT in 4.3 unless something miraculous happens to his dps and movement before the content is released.  He also said that he is not expecting anything miraculous to happen and is therefore not expecting a spot in RGT for 4.3.

I said that we did not want to lose him from the guild and that I hoped he kept raiding, perhaps with RGW.  He'll have a talk to Drea about raiding with RGW and might even consider a main switch.  I'll brief Drea.

So, problem solved in a very nice way.  Noreia was decent and the discussion was at all times very mature and taken in a good spirit.  My hat's off to him.

[JonnyAppleSeed]

Hats off m8 .... Top job sorting him out. Im so glad he took it in the right way