HEROIC Warmaster Blackhorn - DEFEATED 01/04/12

[Leggs]

On a side note jesung / micro were only in half the fight each so credit should probs go to Torgen for avoidance

in regards to me taking so many charges, it is not uncommon for me to intentionally take a hit...ill explain
Alot of the fight i am on the drake which requires strict positioning, i have to stand very close to the edge a swell as angle myself to cleave, so when i am targetted for charge at this position or sometimes the add next to me hits me on the way out, i will simply let it hit me rather than loose 2-6 secs uptime
( depending on how risky i want to be with the ship edge ). I realise that it's extra damage taken but i take extremely little damage this fight due to me not being a designated soaker and my use of feint. If say i took a charge chances are i would still survive an onslaught and you could literally not heal me for 2 minutes and i would survive. With the third add out i am avoiding charges as its not supposed to die until we are ready.
So yeh i don't fail at the mechanic as much as logs suggest
And yes that means i felt the need to justify me being so high up


Also in regards to partner soaking if it was me i would tell my partner to just go for what he can and i would stand directly on top of him the entire time

[microid]

i would want to try me hitting always the left side drake where the tanks will pull the biggy adds. i could chain lightning them and over 2x more dps what im doing now. if i burn my cooldowns on them. i can do some serius damage

cooldowns order for me
1 drakes nothing. the drakes are allready so low on hp that we get them + big adds always before the next ones appear

2 drakes trikets+elemastery. +2.3k spell power,+15% spell dam,+20%haste,+22,5% dual attack change(mastery skill) whit that burst on all 3 of them dragon+2 biggys. it would be a lost of dps me burning just one target, when my strogest skill is chain lightning

3 drakespot +1.2k int. and maybe we shouls use hero on this one?

my dps sucks yes that is true but i can do more if you let me try this.

[Azunai]

It's not a matter of doing a lot of dps, it's a matter of where to put that DPS. Meters on this fight will show low dps, but that's largely because of movement and target switching.

That said, I don't know how you guys handle drakes off the top of my head so it may be a good suggestion. Just saying you shouldn't stare blindly at the DPS numbers as they mean very little in P1 of this fight ;-)

[Leggs]

With my drake left drake, heres how it goes for me

1) i dont start attacking til after first onslaught...it lands just before so i stay on adds for a bit. First drake then usually dies be4 flying away or it dies to dots

2) i am immediately on this one and pop major CDs Hubbah also pops his CDs and we both bring it down pretty fast - it doesn't fly away

3) again i'm immeditely on it and on our couple of better tries it flew away around half although i would say we haven't really been stable at this point yet

So yeh overall if i'm on the left drake there is no dps issue on it

[microid]

sorry my mistake i should just be silenc...and for now one i will do so.

[TeaLeaf]

It's not a matter of being silent Miicroid, silence is not what we want.   We want an exchange of views and an active debate as to how best to deal with the issues we see. Officers will not always know best, although we try our hardest!

[microid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7awke1YAq2o
this was my idea

[Azunai]

Oh yes I didn't mean it to come off as "you should shut up" or anything. As I said it might be a good suggestion ;-)

EDIT: Re the video, makes me want to go lvl my ele shammy again :-) Forgot how much fun it was.

Also, even though this is pretty much 180* against what I just said, their numbers are significantly higher than ours. Their top 5 is doing some 33k dps on average, with only their rogue lagging behind at ~28k. Now, it shows that's  a little more than is needed, as they're done with the current wave of adds before every new one. But maybe something to be gained for us? I know we're on track for doing this with the 1st wave. Second wave, I don't know about the dragons, but at least for the melee adds I lose some serious DPS time to all the moving around for onslaughts and, primarily, the sappers. There's only 1 sapper for the 1st wave and he's pretty late in, but afterwards they seem to drop like flies and I get less time on the melee adds. I'll strive for a higher DPS output on them next time.

[TeaLeaf]

I think we should have a go at single soaking with Trinket

I've been thinking about this some more and I think I am changing my mind on this strategy.  

I think it might increase dps to not have to continually monitor where your buddy is - it would certainly remove the stutter problem for the first couple of Barrage soaks anyway.  Thereafter you need to pair up anyway, so I guess no difference there, but single soaking the first couple mnight be an advantage especially as healers only need to heal up 1 person not 2 for that first soak.  

10 trinketed people can soak 10 Barrages solo, so the aim must be to get 10 soaked per minute whilst drakes are up and to kill off drakes before the minute is up.   That way we can rinse & repeat on the second and third waves of drakes.

Additionally, it might be worth anyone with the debuff NOT soaking in the Onslaughts.   Too much RNG there with Blade Rush damage too.

Might be worth a try tonight.

[Azunai]

I've been thinking about this some more and I think I am changing my mind on this strategy.  

I think it might increase dps to not have to continually monitor where your buddy is - it would certainly remove the stutter problem for the first couple of Barrage soaks anyway.  Thereafter you need to pair up anyway, so I guess no difference there, but single soaking the first couple mnight be an advantage especially as healers only need to heal up 1 person not 2 for that first soak.  

10 trinketed people can soak 10 Barrages solo, so the aim must be to get 10 soaked per minute whilst drakes are up and to kill off drakes before the minute is up.   That way we can rinse & repeat on the second and third waves of drakes.

I'm all for this, if Puja says its easier to heal too. I've hardly used my trinket at all last time, simply because there was so little to soak. I definetly reckon it's doable, the only concern I have is that the quadrant thing might not work as some quadrants might get 4 or 5 in the same time another gets maybe 1 barrage.

[Milli]

Just reading on MMO Champ

We are doing 9 man soak onslaught, and 1 tank is staying out soaking barrages. That tank will soak 2-3 and then tank swap when 2nd set of elites land, and the tanks swaps arround. Works wonder.

Else we use raid cooldowns something like this:

1st onslaught: DK tank (9 people soak)
2nt onslaught: nothing (10 people soak since their is no barrages)
3rd onslaught: feral tank (9 people soak)
4th onslaught: spirit link/tranq if needed (9 people soak)
5th onslaught: nonthing (10 people soak)

the 5th onslaught will only come if you let one of the drakes from 3rd wave fly off, for a more cleaner transition, and their if theirfor no point soaking more barrages, the ship should be more than fine.

The most crucial thing about the fight is, that fire spawns at 75%, 50% and 25% ship HP, so its really important you never take double hit at same time, like go from 51% > 24% then its gets messy

Dunno if thats any help to what everyones seen

[Niel]

I'm not saying single soaking is the answer - the danger is that it wouldn't take much to take someone from the low HP they will be at to the laying down on the deck state.

What it would solve is "do i, don't i, do i" stutter that we are seeing kill people.......everyone that does it is in command of their own destiny and is not relying on someone being right on them.

It would mean the soaking pairs keeping track of who's turn it is.......so a macro'd operation of the trinket that included a whisper to your soaking partner saying "you get next" or similar would hopefully keep people aware of when they are on duty for their quadrant........this to avoid both people taking the same one and both popping trinks and effectively losing the chance of them single soaking again for a minute.

It's be nice to see it for a few goes.....if only to rule it out as a silly idea. I do see advantages that would address some of the problems we have had and also increase dps by cutting down movement as a whole.......but there are of course potential costs that we have not fully quantified by trying.

[Slush]

*cough* 3 healers *cough*

[hubbah]

To low dps if we try 3 healers..

[TeaLeaf]

To low dps if we try 3 healers..

Agreed.  

We tried single soaking last night and it did not work as well as we hoped, so we reverted to pair soaking.
We also moved to 1 melee 5 ranged (instead of 2 melee, 4 ranged) and this really seemed to help.

Overrall DPS has improved, so we moved to mass soaking #1 & #2 Onslaughts with Incendia and me soaking #3 & #4.   We need to establish (by regularly surviving long enough) that the ship has enough HP to allow a solo soak twice, otherwise we might need to mass soak one of them.

Barrage soaking seemed to improve a lot last night and we were really only starting to struggle towards the end of the 2nd Drake wave and as the 3rd wave dropped into the action.  

All in all a good night's work on this encounter.  Well done all!