Double-Clicking is Good for DPS

[Vargen]

Silver Oak Guardians RG1

Aww, you spoiled it. I was hoping for one of TL's trademarked posts

On a more serious note, I'm sure you will hear from the RGT's later. Not everyone surfs forums for a living

[TeaLeaf]

Trade Marked for Vargen!

The history:
Back in the days before Dead Men Walking was even created, dMw used to provide a forum home for the Silver Oak Guardians guild.  SOG was a vanilla raiding guild on EU-Aszune and ran 2 x 40 person raid groups, RG1 and RG2.    SOG more or less collapsed after TBC came out and never really recovered.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/guild/aszune/Silver%20Oak%20Guardians/

[Ranualf]

Jesung and TL are both correct

spamming buttons on"hard casts" actually improves your dps
spamming it during "dot time", well, you may as well take a 20 sec bio, for all the good it does you...other than burning mana

however there are exceptions to this rule  !

If you Re-dot during hero/PI phases, then your dots benefit from the haste aspect, as in you`ll get 8 ticks per dot, as opposed to 6, etc
this also carries on when you have other abilities to refresh them(i think)
there was a lot of issues with lock and spriest`s dots not benefitting from haste buffs, but other casters did(blizz took a long time to fix this annoying problem)


for a closer caster look, download QUARTZ, as it shows you the "clip points" where you can cut off your channelled spells, and works for all classes(i think)

http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/quartz

hope this helps

[Jesung]

Jesung and TL are both correct

spamming buttons on"hard casts" actually improves your dps
spamming it during "dot time", well, you may as well take a 20 sec bio, for all the good it does you...other than burning mana

however there are exceptions to this rule  !

If you Re-dot during hero/PI phases, then your dots benefit from the haste aspect, as in you`ll get 8 ticks per dot, as opposed to 6, etc
this also carries on when you have other abilities to refresh them(i think)
there was a lot of issues with lock and spriest`s dots not benefitting from haste buffs, but other casters did(blizz took a long time to fix this annoying problem)


for a closer caster look, download QUARTZ, as it shows you the "clip points" where you can cut off your channelled spells, and works for all classes(i think)

http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/quartz

hope this helps

I though that Hero was a casting speed increase not an actual haste one? I may be wrong though.

[Azunai]

Jesung and TL are both correct

spamming buttons on"hard casts" actually improves your dps

Ah this sums up my original point: I think you're looking at it the wrong way around. Spamming the button doesn't increase your dps -> not doing so decreases it. That's not just semantics, it's to do with a mindset or attitude towards what you can get out of your class during a raid fight.

Consider: You use Instant-spell X, and 1 second later (or however long GCD is) you use Instant-spell Y. Not 1.2 seconds later, as you would lose time. .2 seconds sounds like very little, but over a 10 minute fight it adds up to a lot.

If you have a rotation of, say, 4 spells, that are all instant cast, you should complete a full rotation in 4 seconds (provided GCD is 1 second). Not in 5, that's a DPS loss. In a pure DPS encounter like Ultraxion, lasting say, 5 minutes, it means that you would have done the same ammount of dps as someone who was spot-on with his rotation for the first 4 minutes, and stood around doing absolutely nothing for the last 1 minute of the fight. Just because you were a quarter of a second late on every spell ;-) Of course you need to take into account that not every fight allows you to stand still and do nothing but dps, but the same logic applies for whatever timeframe: a quarter of a second slower in your rotations can net you 20% less DPS.

The only thing that should ever interfere with this is hardware/latency issues. Anything else, to put it very bluntly, means a lack of skill/knowledge of the game/class. You're not being as good as you can be. ;-) So I don't see it as something I can do to increase your dps, but something I should do so I don't lose dps.

[TeaLeaf]

If you Re-dot during hero/PI phases, then your dots benefit from the haste aspect, as in you`ll get 8 ticks per dot, as opposed to 6, etc
this also carries on when you have other abilities to refresh them(i think)

In general for all DOT classes:
When you cast a DOT it benefits by your current ('at time of cast') buffs on a per cast basis
Debuffs on your target apply on a per tick basis

You need to take care though where the ability is refreshed by other abilities, like SW:P is by Mind Flay.  As the SW:P is refreshed, it will always refresh to your current ('at time of cast') buff levels.  So a Shadow Priest would only recast VT & DP under say heroism and only if they have a significant duration left otherwise the 2 lost GCDs lose your greater DPS than the refresh on the DOT would gain.

The old TBC mechanism of popping a spell power pot at the start of the fight and maintaining it for the entire duration of the fight is therefore long gone as any SW:P gets constantly refreshed to the then current buff level.

[Azunai]

Something I've always wondered RE dots being refreshed by other abilities: A dot ticks every X seconds, say 3. Does it tick right on top of the cast (and thus refresh) or is the first tick always after those X seconds? I was wondering this on my hunter. You use Cobra Shot as part of your rotation quite a lot. If I'm not mistaken, there are times when you cast it at least twice every ~3 seconds. Cobra shot also refreshes the duration of Serpent Sting. How would that tie in with the dot ticks? Cause if you refresh it twice within 3 seconds, you either get it ticking an extra time within that 3 second window, or you're pushing back a tick due to a double refresh.

I realize it's not something you really have to take into consideration on DoTs that refresh when you use other mandatory spells (you don't stop using Cobra Shot as a hunter for this, f.ex), I was just wondering how it works.

[hubbah]

as far as i know it only ups the duration time of serpent sting to the max ( think its 16 sec? not sure about that one ).
So if the buff has a 10 second duration left and you cast Cobrashot it ups the duration back to 16 seconds, then you cast Cobrashot again it ups the duration from 14.33 seconds back to 16 seconds, so on so on.

But like i said, thats as far as i know i could be sooooooooooooooooo wrong!

[Vargen]

Azunai, what you aren't taking into consideration is lag. Sure, you may be superman and you can hit that button on the exact right nanosecond. Your keyboard, your computer, your LAN, the internetz and the servers are neither superman, nor psychic. Your client allows queuing up abilities to some extent. In SWTOR you can actually adjust this timing. This means that if your window for a perfect optimal activation of the skill is 1 second, or even 0,5 seconds. More often then not a person that hits the key 3 times in say 1,5 seconds will do better then someone lesser then superman. Now the semantics is another thing. I won't even go into that. Just keep in mind that people with English as their 2nd or 3rd language sometimes aren't able to express themselves 100% accurately.

koz&klemz

[Azunai]

as far as i know it only ups the duration time of serpent sting to the max ( think its 16 sec? not sure about that one ).
So if the buff has a 10 second duration left and you cast Cobrashot it ups the duration back to 16 seconds, then you cast Cobrashot again it ups the duration from 14.33 seconds back to 16 seconds, so on so on.

But like i said, thats as far as i know i could be sooooooooooooooooo wrong!

Ah so you're saying the DOT tick timer works independantly from the duration of the buff. That's possible I guess, and would make sense :-)

[Azunai]

Azunai, what you aren't taking into consideration is lag. Sure, you may be superman and you can hit that button on the exact right nanosecond. Your keyboard, your computer, your LAN, the internetz and the servers are neither superman, nor psychic. Your client allows queuing up abilities to some extent. In SWTOR you can actually adjust this timing. This means that if your window for a perfect optimal activation of the skill is 1 second, or even 0,5 seconds. More often then not a person that hits the key 3 times in say 1,5 seconds will do better then someone lesser then superman. Now the semantics is another thing. I won't even go into that. Just keep in mind that people with English as their 2nd or 3rd language sometimes aren't able to express themselves 100% accurately.

koz&klemz

The only thing that should ever interfere with this is hardware/latency issues.

So yes, you're pretty much preaching to the converted. It has nothing to do with superpowers, but indeed with the limitations of hardware. Which is why you need to spam those buttons, so you ensure that everything goes as optimal as it can on your end. This as opposed to waiting after a GCD has finished. ;-)

As for the semantics part, what I mean is that using the button spamming thing isn't something that should be seen as a way to increase your dps. It's something that I would consider a must, because not doing so is a DPS loss. That's exactly why I think it is not semantics, in other words a language thing, but rather an attitude that you have towards your playstyle.

[hubbah]

who else thinks that Varg should quit swtor and reinstall WoW like the rest of us addicts?

going horribly offtopic tho: Yes i think so Torg, ill have to do some googling to be sure, but at work .. so ill do that at home

[Nimsraedian]

Back on topic...

I agree to this post btw. I hit my spells 2/3 times before i actually need it and i feel it has always helped me not to waste any dps.
But it does depend on what class you play and the rotation that comes with it.
But for us rogues you just have to click as many times as you can with the least amount of time in between your spells

[Siffredi]

Azunai, what you aren't taking into consideration is lag. Sure, you may be superman and you can hit that button on the exact right nanosecond. Your keyboard, your computer, your LAN, the internetz and the servers are neither superman, nor psychic. Your client allows queuing up abilities to some extent. In SWTOR you can actually adjust this timing. This means that if your window for a perfect optimal activation of the skill is 1 second, or even 0,5 seconds. More often then not a person that hits the key 3 times in say 1,5 seconds will do better then someone lesser then superman. Now the semantics is another thing. I won't even go into that. Just keep in mind that people with English as their 2nd or 3rd language sometimes aren't able to express themselves 100% accurately.

koz&klemz

You know you can do taht in wow too? There is a lag timer, where i know you can adjust it to match what your current ping is. I think torgen should check out Landsouls free guide to fit in an extra execute during a collussos smash, just by adjusting this "lag adjuster", and by saving up rage and abilities for it. I do not play a warrior but it gave a very good picture of just how much extra dps you can squeeze out of going that extra mile into perfecting your rotations/abilities.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6OWoxXTB7i4

[Switchback]

Sigh...little response from RGW...

Playing my rogue i use this method and it works a treat...As the healer now i dont really have to apart from lifebloom.

Long live SOG! My 1st raidguild,was only there for a short time b4 TBC but it was great