Hardmodes next Week

[vladic]

Hey Everyone,

We have been beating around the bush with this topic at current and Obviously I cant see your Council only forum so I dont know what stage of discussion etc you are currently at so ill just post my piece here.

• Both Kragga's and Eternity Vault are completely Clear, they arnt exceptionally difficult once you know the fights and we walked through Kragga's in 3 hours
• 10 People are currently geared and ready to go to Hardmodes with them gaining nothing more from running Normal OP's for Several weeks, however this does not mean we can bench them and have me take 7 new or reserve people along for experience and Equipment as it wouldnt be fair to make them wait longer.
• As smilo said earlier "Both groups will run Normal OP's" which im against, and this is has been my intention all along, both groups will NOT run normals, the second OP group was designed to accomodate all our reserve plays and new ones to allow them to do Normal modes whilst those who are ready may advance onto Hard or even Nightmare Mode, this is not to say that the 2nd group wont reach Hardmode as they eventually will just not at the same time as the first group
• People have already registed that Psykoo and Rain have left, these where 2 pretty damned good operations members who were ready for hardmodes and had been like myself and others for several weeks, unfortunatly due to the slow speed at which deliberations are being done (post Table tennis) it is much faster and efficient as me and Toby found to just talk on TS

Now im not trying to dictate your jobs as obviously the day to day running of this thing is for you to decide, but I am speaking for the BULK of our OP's players as there OP leader and to be honest there only voice to the council as KKND isnt there everyweek so his view is kinda fragmented due to weeks he is rotated out.

The BULK of OP's members are ready for Hardmodes and the Deliberations and lack of Information flow from the council isnt giving them confidence in this, for example a 2nd day should have been a simple setup task and a priority yet no one has heard anything (including myself) and Tobys message "but some are not in the same position. But hard mode is coming." has set some of them on the edge and slightly demonstrated the lack of knowledge your team currently has on the State of Operations (I assumed would be provided by KKND) that has been told by me to Toby for several weeks.

As we ARE ready for Hardmodes and have been for several weeks, we DO have the people, yes we WILL have to leave some behind (a minority) who will form the 2nd OP's group, but this can not be avoided, we cant hold back ten players for the sake of 3 - 5 (based on who are absent etc) as it defeated the whole idea of Tobys Fairness Policy.

Gentlemen I think it would be appreciated by myself and others if this week we could begin Hardmodes and you were to Finalise the 2nd OP's group/2nd Day as Confidence and faith in the guild are currently sinking to rock bottom faster then the Titanic :angry:

Thought id let you know and apologise if I ranted abit but it was required that you know how I and other Members feel.

Vladic

[KKND]

Just a little note...


Rain left cos Psykoo left..same as a dog that follows his Boss.!!!
Rain didn't do any OP'S as he found it to late to do it.

[vladic]

Ah that part i didnt know, still we did lose a very good healer for operations which is a rather large issue as some others will eventually follow the same suit

[Gortex]

To start with Toby won’t be able to give a quick reply to this as he is away this weekend in real life stuff rather than just fantasy. (Queen song starts playing in the back ground) :blink:

Some valid points Vladic and I personally can’t see why hard modes can’t start but I do have some concerns about this and you even highlighted one of them for me but from a different context.

As you say this move to hard mode is beneficial to the 8-10 players who are ready to move on but there are 3-5 who are not, and more players are coming up. You say they/you don’t want to have to wait around for others to catch up but what are these 3-5 players meant to do then? I feel it is just a bit selfish. To have the point of view there is nothing more for me at normal so I will no longer help those who want to do it and go off and only play hard core. This is very non dMw..... I would hope that those moving on to hard mode would be still willing to come run normal runs to and help out those members who have not run them yet, advice and encourage them to do better. The shinier sword syndrome is not always the best answer when we have a very good many people playing who want to progress to but not at the same level and have never played an mmo.

It is already happening which I have seen several times that someone wants to go run a level 50 op and no one puts there hand up to go help and run them through it. I can see this happening to the second group and people who have then been labelled as “not got the gear yet”. If I can be assured that these 8-10 people are willing to run hard mode one night of the week and then perhaps run normal with others on the second night then I can’t see an issue with starting this. I am all for taking dMw forward and putting our name out there as a good guild and community to play with who can progress but what is just as important is helping others out.

I think Sindri point of can we run hard modes and normal without locking out to each other is a very good point and worth finding out.  For example you start on a Thursday and 8 out of the 10 players go for hard mode but the other 2 join on the Tuesday the normal run to assist and teach others the fight and then rotate it around the following week with 2 others dropping out to help the normal. The problem is I just don’t see this happening and the 2 who have to do normal will just think forget this it is a waste of my time and just not turn up or refuse to run the normal.

This is now my 9th MMO that I have played and in almost all versions there has always been a group that power ahead really well does what they want to do and then forget about everyone else and go play something else. Leaving those who were not quite part of this group never getting to see the end game content and feeling they have been let down. (I think you get my point)

I think you are doing a really great job in running the OP’s, and the one I listened in on the other night sounded very well put together, constructive and above all FUN. I would hope that all members of the dMw guild will get the same chance or running this sort of thing as it is end game at its most enjoyable.

I hope you can see this as constructive criticism rather than an attack but I feel we need to think about every one and the bigger picture rather than just a few.

Can I suggest holding back on a full decision until toby is back and we have a chat about it and give the thumbs up for hard mode?

[smilodon]

As mentioned in the other thread ignore my comment about two normal mode groups. If we're ready for hard modes lets go for it. I didn't appreciate that so many were ready now.

As to the players who are ready for Normal mode I'm sure in a few days to a week we'll have enough Lv 50's to start running a second group (I'm approaching Lv 48 already). If that group wants to progress past normal mode stuff it can do so. If it catches up with the first group then great and we can mix and match the two groups or not, in whatever way works best.

So I would suggest we let the first group (we needs names for these groups ) move forward at it's own pace and as soon as we have a second group ready to go start that. And we should post it in public for the Guild to see.

Oh and your progression post - http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?35221-Current-Progression-Status&p=344647#post344647 would it be an idea to post it outside the private forum so the rest of teh dmw community and visitors to teh forum could see how we're progressing. I could make it stick and read only and it could be updated as you update the original? It would be some good advertising.

[Grimnar]

I would say lets create a post (made by one of the Dark Council) that hardmode raiding is a go

[smilodon]

I dropped a big hint in the other thread and agree we should get this up on the forum tomorrow. Hopefully Toby (whose AFK for the weekend will be able to read the forum and confirm but if not I'm sure he would be happy for us to go official. Clearly everyone wants confirmation of Vladics plans now.

[BrotherTobious]

do it gents good idea with a name but something other than hard or normal let's great creative will be back on Tuesday.

Sent from your computer.

[vladic]

Name: Op's Group Thursday, Second Group can be Called Something Like Thursday 2.0 or something

Gortex : On the subject of running normal's one day a week of the two, this would entirely depend upon the progress made within the hardmode, as if for example 3 bosses out of 5 are dead in HM Eternity Vault, It would be in the groups interest to return within the lockout period to complete the hardmode instance (this applies to nightmare), as to the 2nd Group assistance that is what I was planning anyway but a tad different, basically Both ops would run the same night, that way those 2 who I rotate out of hard everyweek would run with the Normals (if anything but to keep them busy as there is nothing worse then waiting to go OP's and not going as your in reserve).

"I would hope that those moving on to hard mode would be still willing to come run normal runs to and help out those members who have not run them yet" Aye they have alts etc they can bring however the hardmode would still be there priority as said above if we still have a day left for lockout to complete it then that would have to occur over us creating a 2nd Normal op for the week to handel extra member flow, also No one should be left behind due to the setting up of a 2nd group which will have its own member core taking the 5 reserves currently in play and adding extra new members to it will give them 10+ members to play with.

Also Im assuming by what ive read above a Fixed Roster has been approved for the Hardmodes to Accomodate those who wish to do them? as ill post it Below:

Tanks

Imhotep
Lurek
Krekla

Healers

Tenilia
Twyster

DPS

Vladic
DarkAngel
Sheepy
KKND
Varg

These are the ten ive mentioned before, as can be seen we have one too many tank and DPS so I would assign these on a weekly rota to go help the 2nd Group on there normal run (bar myself obviously due to leading the run)

Well Gentlemen Glad you approved of this and I look forward tos eeing your Post with the attached Rosta this afternoon once im home from work

[vladic]

Aw and smilo if you can convert my Post to a sticky that be excellent

[BrotherTobious]

just in passing if it is not up don not post it up please vlad it is to be done by one of the officers thank you.

Sent from your computer.

[smilodon]

Out all day.  I'll be home this evening to sticky the post etc.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

[smilodon]

Brief enough? If it's Ok we can post it up in the public area of the forum. Personally I think it should not be in the members only section but in the public part of the SWTOR forums as we need to advertsise that we're moving along and that SWTOR is a game that's going places (insert other PR nonsense here) . If someone wants to pen a better version than mine feel free. Whatever happens we should have this up on the forum tonight if possible IMHO.

After several successful runs through ST:TOR Operations on Normal Mode we've now got a group of players whose gear, skill and teamworking ability means they're ready and itching to get stuck into the Hard Modes. So without further ado we're officially releasing our Dogs of War onto the Unsuspecting fools Karagga and The Infernal One at Hard Mode. It all starts next week. Good Luck Guys

The Dark Council

[vladic]

aye, I would add the hardmode roster onto the list tho as otherwise im going to haver to explain each week before 2nd group is up to the 5 why they arnt on the list.

vladic

[vladic]

Also id make it bit less pompus sounding, just a few simple lines like "now that blah blah has been completed and that we have sufficient people who are geared and skilled etc beginning next thursday "date" Hardmodes will begin"

Vladic