MoP Wishful Thinking List

[TeaLeaf]

Stuff that we want to discuss and consider implementing before and during MoP.  

Please add stuff to the list as you think of it.

• Raid days - do we switch to Wed?  What steps needed to check beforehand
• DKP minbid for tier token pieces
• PTR Raid testing for MoP
• Re-apply for RGT raid spot?
• Recruitment process in prep for MoP
• Check which class people will be main playing in MoP

[TeaLeaf]

Now here's a thought:

If MoP loot  systems are changing, what role does DKP play??  :frusty:

Thanks Blizz, again.  :angry:

[TeaLeaf]

Extracting the info from the 'RGT & MoP' thread, this is how it is shaping up:

Tanks:
Whytee
Halbarad

Healers:
Jas
Slush
Puja
?

Melee DPS:
Zaul
Guru

Ranged DPS:
Teaell
Maldaror
Jesung
Hubbah
Incendia (open to re-roll)
Ayla


Expressed interest:
Tessy NOT RAIDING IN MOP
Sheepy NEVER IN GAME

[TeaLeaf]

Re the raid days question in the OP, I'll toss a PM out to raiders and collate the answers here in this post based upon the above future RGT membership.

Member|Wed|Thu|Sun|Mon|Tue
TANKS
Whytee|N|Y|Y|Y|Y
Halbarad|||||
?|||||
HEALERS
Jas|Y|Y|Y|Y|Y
Slush|Y|Y|N|Y|Y
?|||||
?|||||
MELEE DPS
Puja|Y|Y|Y|Y|Y
Scream|Y|Y|Y|Y|Y
?|||||
RANGED DPS
Teaell|Y|Y|Y|Y|Y
Maldaror|Y|Y|Y|Y|Y
Jesung|Y|Y|Y|Y|Y
Hubbah|N|Y|Y|Y|Y
Incendia|N|Y|Y|Y|Y
?|||||
INTERESTED
Tessy|N|Y|Y|N|Y
Tirkad|Y|N|Y|N|Y
Sheepy|||||[/table]

[TeaLeaf]

As it seems that the MoP LFR loot system will only apply to LFR, I'll raise the min bid loot issue again.

The problem:
Certain classes get tier loot or shared loot at much lower DKP cost than some other classes.  In a 25 man raid this was never a problem as there were generally always enough of the same token class or shared loot classes to make bidding competitive.  However in a 10 man raid we are seeing much lower or no competition for some loot and this leads to some classes having an unfair advantage when competing for shared loot.  

Since the star of DS tier tokens have on average cost:
13 DKP for Vanquisher (20 tokens went for 1-5 DKP)
17 DKP for Protector (25 tokens for 1-5 DKP)
24 DKP for Conqueror (13 tokens for 1-5 DKP)

All of this is consistent with what I posted here:
http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?36114-Lies-Damn-Lies-Statisitcs-amp-Loot-Drops

Possible solution:
I think we need to have a minimum bid price for tier tokens as minimum requirement, possibly for other items too in order to preserve some kind of dkp equality.  

As you raise the minimum price of the tokens the disparity steadily reduces.
MinBid 0: Ave 18.0, Max Range between token class averages 10.5 DKP
MinBid 5: Ave 19.8, Max Range  9.8 DKP
MinBid 10: Ave 22.5, Max Range 7.3 DKP
MinBid 15: Ave 25.3, Max Range 6.1 DKP
MinBid 20: Ave 28.3, Max Range 5.0 DKP
MinBid 25: Ave 31.5, Max Range 4.1 DKP
MinBid 30: Ave 34.9, Max Range 3.4 DKP
MinBid 35: Ave 38.9, Max Range 2.6 DKP

On a graph, the sweet spot for minimising the spread for minimum amount of increase in minimum bid price appears to be a MinBid of between 11-12 DKP.

Other Systems:
I'm not completely against other systems, but I still like the bidding system as it is simple, creates an excitement over loot and allows personal preference to dictate loot value.  I'm not a fan of fixed price or overly complicated systems like EPGP. Systems that predetermine the value of an item misvalue the item to an individual on a regular basis, bidding allows that flexibility, but with bidding comes the class imbalance issue on shared loot.

Worth some discussion.....

[TeaLeaf]

Member|Wed|Thu|Sun|Mon|Tue
TANKS
Whytee|N|Y|Y|Y|Y
Halbarad|||||
?|||||
HEALERS
Jas|Y|Y|Y|Y|Y
Slush|Y|Y|N|Y|Y
?|||||
?|||||
MELEE DPS
Puja|Y|Y|Y|Y|Y
Scream|Y|Y|Y|Y|Y
?|||||
RANGED DPS
Teaell|Y|Y|Y|Y|Y
Maldaror|Y|Y|Y|Y|Y
Jesung|Y|Y|Y|Y|Y
Hubbah|N|Y|Y|Y|Y
Incendia|N|Y|Y|Y|Y
?|||||
INTERESTED
Tessy|N|Y|Y|N|Y
Tirkad|Y|N|Y|N|Y
Sheepy|||||[/table]

Given these survey results, is it safe to tick this item off the agenda and conclude that we have reviewed the best days for RGT to raid and will remain raiding on Thur, Sun & Tue?

What is still to be discussed is Puja's situation re healing or melee dps.

[JonnyAppleSeed]

Well it may be possible to use the wed as a temp day at the start of mop just to get a jump on some guilds but im not lossing any sleep if we drop down the ranks by a day

Ragards loot i think our dkp tool has the option for fix bidding as long as its easy to admin we just need to set the magic number

[Whitey]

Well it may be possible to use the wed as a temp day at the start of mop just to get a jump on some guilds but im not lossing any sleep if we drop down the ranks by a day

Ragards loot i think our dkp tool has the option for fix bidding as long as its easy to admin we just need to set the magic number

I agree with everything Jas says... Although I can't make Wednesdays regularly, I could make the odd one of for new raid content etc.

I'll have a look at the DKP stuff to see if we can make it easy, otherwise we just state minimum bid of xx for tier pieces.

[TeaLeaf]

Mop Token Classes:

Protector: Hunter, Monk, Shaman, Warrior
Conqueror: Paladin, Priest, Warlock
Vanquisher: Death Knight, Druid, Mage, Rogue

http://mop.wowhead.com/search?q=Shadowy


Protector: Slush, Puja, Hubbah, Ayla
Conqueror: Whytee, Halbarad, Teaell, Jesung, Tessy?
Vanquisher: Jas, Maldaror, Incendia, Zaul

This still leaves Conqueror in a nasty position imo, especially if Tessy wants to play pala.  I'd like us to have a chat on TS to see what can be done about this as it is painful with the loot distribution we're seeing.  TO have cleared all heroic content over a month ago before I get to see a second piece of tier loot is just frikking stupid and I don't want us to go int MoP in the same situation if we can avoid it.   At the moment the class imbalance means we have tanks that are geared slowly, our best dps is geared slowly and, well, a second priest slows us all down.

[TeaLeaf]

I'll add TTR to the list if I may.  Time To Raid.   i.e. how long after launch we schedule our first raid.

[TeaLeaf]

On a graph, the sweet spot for minimising the spread for minimum amount of increase in minimum bid price appears to be a MinBid of between 11-12 DKP.

I'd like us to get this finalised if we can well before MoP comes out.   I'd propose:

Minbid of 12 DKP for a tier token for mainspec use.
Minbid of 1 DKP for a tier token for offspec use.

It won't eliminate disadvantage, but it will reduce the disparity across the classes considerably.

[TeaLeaf]

I also think we need to start planning how to introduce this change to Amber.  My preferred route is to make it part of the class rebalance discussion and suggest that as part of that we've concluded we'd like to move someone from the RGT pala/priest/warlock group into the RGW pala/priest/warlock group (of whom there are very few).  

Thoughts?

[Michelanio]

I'd like us to get this finalised if we can well before MoP comes out.   I'd propose:

Minbid of 12 DKP for a tier token for mainspec use.
Minbid of 1 DKP for a tier token for offspec use.

It won't eliminate disadvantage, but it will reduce the disparity across the classes considerably.

that seems fairly fair, not to high but still enough to get a rotation going. with regards to Amber why cant we just say we think he sucks and dont want him in our raidgroup? But ye use the class balance as a excuse to move him over to RGW

[Whitey]

My only concern with the class balance being used is that as far as I know we still don't have confirmation from Tessy that he will be raiding on the Pally. I think we need an answer before we play the class card in case Amber asks about it.

[TeaLeaf]

Let's nail him down asap then, I'm pretty sure the answer will be yes as the other classes he mentioned are not options.