Can we make the server public?

[kregoron]

This is exactly what I keep trying to explain.  TCS *does* work on a public server.  And it works precisely because TCS is a formulated set of rules (boundaries and 'rubbish like that') which were formulated to enable a tactical style of play to be conducted on a public server.  What you have surmised (correctly) is that without this framework, TCS on a public server is unworkable.

I still dont think I've seen a good explanation of why the TCS ruleset was ever revisited in the first place.  Core CS gameplay has not changed throughout its iterations.  If we do not need boundaries to enable TCS play now, then it's also true that we have never needed them. Anyone who used to play our public server during busy times can attest that this is not the case.

Many who discovered dMw through CSS will also attest that the structured gameplay on the server is the reason that they came back.  I'd like to see us have a public server again so we can bring in more players to TCS.  Without the structure, TCS won't work, and without TCS there's nothing to bring people back.

TCS is what made us special (in a good way)

We even had other communities cloning our TCS platform to accomodate their Tactical servers.

[Doorman]

TCS on the public server resulted in one of two things. New people 'got it' and stayed to become solid members, or they didn't 'get it' and never came back. dMw played CoD (the first one I believe) in the same manner "and it was good". Then for reasons I know not it changed to 'blue arsed fly' mode. Spoiled it for me.

I do see an element of frag hunting on MH creeping in and sadly a despondent acceptance of it by some. It comes as a big shock to an old fella to be shot in the back! Please don't give up on 'all that rubbish'

[b00n]

TCS on the public server resulted in one of two things. New people 'got it' and stayed to become solid members, or they didn't 'get it' and never came back.

I think this gets to the heart of it really, despite the fact that there are ten thousand other servers where you don't have to play TCS, we seem to be following the route of wider society where you absolutely cannot do anything which might upset anyone, therefore TCS must change.

[Doorman]

.....the route of wider society where you absolutely cannot do anything which might upset anyone....

Don't start me on that! :sideways:

[kregoron]

I think this gets to the heart of it really, despite the fact that there are ten thousand other servers where you don't have to play TCS, we seem to be following the route of wider society where you absolutely cannot do anything which might upset anyone, therefore TCS must change.

It will discussed (hopefully later today) either we go more mainstream and hope people on the server follow TCS, and if not well we can only hope.
Or we run by the old ruleset and go full focus on TCS hoping to bring in a fair amount of people who will love it as so many of our older members do.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[TheDvEight]

Can someone please explain how the boundaries rule worked in the past...Thanks.

[KKND]

These are the rules whe used for TCS

No Entry Signs and Out Of Bounds (OOB)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       On the dMw servers we play Tactical  CS which focuses on objective oriented team play. To emphasize the  objective oriented play No Entry Signs have been placed for the  defending team on all our maps. If you cannot see the signs you need to  reconnect to the server. If you still cannot see them you need to turn  on Decals in your config.

The signs indicate that the defending team should not go beyond this  point as it would mean compromising the objective. In game it means that  the defending team are not allowed past the sign. Below the No Entry  Signs are displayed and explained.

The No Entry Signs



T No Entry Sign

Ts are not allowed to go beyond the no-entry signs UNTIL the hostages  are taken. If the hostages are taken the goal is to secure the hostages  when you go beyond the no entry signs.

------------




CT No Entry Sign

CTs are NOT allowed to go beyond the no-entry signs UNTIL the bomb is  planted. CTs are allowed to guard a downed bomb beyond the no entry  sign.

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FAQ about No Entry Signs:
Q1. Am I allowed to pick up a gun on the wrong side of a No Entry Sign?
A1. No.

Q2. How should I interpret a sign like the CT no entry sign above that is on the side wall?
A2. Imagine a plane extending from that wall in parallel with the sign across that entrance. Do not cross that plane.

Q3. I think I heard someone calling the bomb down. Can I flank?
A3. No. You need to have confirmation that the  bomb is down. You should always question flanking as you put yourself at  risk and indirectly your team. If you are unsure always go the safe  route that is in bounds.
If the bomb is confirmed down you are allowed to flank but you should  always discuss it with your team. What is the reason for flanking? You  getting quicker to the bomb or maybe getting a kill?

Q4. When a no entry sign is sprayed on the ground where does the boundary go? Can I stand on it?
A4. If you are unsure - do not do it! Always interpret the  signs in the opposite teams favor i.e. the boundary starts closest to  you.


Q5. If the CTs have grabbed 2 out of 4 hostages and  rescues them but the Ts still have the remaining 2, are the No Entry  Signs still the rule or can T go everywhere?
A5. The objective for T is to guard the hostages  i.e. the no entry signs comes in play as soon as the first 2 hostages  are rescued. Ts are not allowed to go out of bounds as the "new"  objective is to guard the remaining hostages.
If there are Ts that are out of bounds due to the pursuit of the first 2  hostages they should return as soon as possible to the remaining 2 as  that is the objective.

Q6. Can I take a quick peek beyond a no entry sign if the objective is not compromised?
A6. No.


Q7. Am I allowed to spray my own spray on top of a no entry sign?
A7. No.

Q8. What does OOB mean?
A8. It means Out Of Bounds i.e. you have moved  beyond a no entry sign. If you are OOB then you should get back on the  "right" side of the No Entry Sign. Rule of thumb is that you should be  near your objective.

Q9. What happens if I go beyond the No Entry Signs?
A9. First you will be warned. If you don't return you will also risk being slayed, then kicked and finally banned.

Q10. I can't see any signs. Are you sure there are signs on this map?
A10. There are signs on all maps  in the rotation on both Boomer and Meathook. If you cannot see them you  should reconnect to the server. Easiest way to do that is typing  "retry" in console. If you still not see any signs you should make sure  that you Decals are allowed in your config. If you have disabled decals  it is up to YOU to turn them on or learn the boundaries by heart.
 ---------

Some examples of how the No Entry Signs should be interpreted.


Sign is on the wall and the line extends along that wall i.e. you are not allowed at the steps.


Sign on the ground because a full sign wouldn't fit on the wall on each side of the entrance.



Double doors on aztec. Note that there are two signs. The reason for this is that is easy to miss the sign only on the ground.



Bridge on aztec. Here 3 signs work as one basically but all 3 are needed due to the two levels and the scale of the openings.



Wooden bridge on kismayo. No it is not allowed to step up onto them and  peek. If you have an urge to peek stand on the ledge on the right but  keep on the right side of the boundary.



Kismayo again. Difficult corner with 2 signs. Extending the lines it make is clear though.


Bottom of bombsite B on marauder. The boundary is an extension of the wall and stops _in_ the crates and not after.


Inferno corridor to A. Note that the boundary is an extension of the wall and goes in between the pillars.

EDIT: Whe had signs at that time placed overal where it was not allowed to pass them...

[TheDvEight]

Thanks KKND, I've not had alot of experince with playing CS on Public servers, Thus far only played on one where it was a free for all of mayhem (not in a good way). If we WERE to go public I wouldn't mind seeing the boundaries rule implemented, But what happens if a random pubby were to join the server and broke the rule they would first get warned & An admin/dMw tag wearer explain the rule?.

[KKND]

In the past it was like warn, warn last warn kick something like that by admins.....but this is now up to Blunt and his team how they wanna have the rules if it gos public.
Boundaries implemented is alot off work i think.......think things work also if you use common sence ;-)

[TheDvEight]

warned how? If it was a public player for example what would an admin say would they explain the rule or just state to stay out of that area?.

[KKND]

warned how? If it was a public player for example what would an admin say would they explain the rule or just state to stay out of that area?.

Offcourse explain rules first whe had even before you joined server the rules added..

[kregoron]

The Rules, state of server, and all relating, has tonight been discussed by the admins..

Rules and server structure will be posted in the following days.

[Chaosphere]

This is exactly what I keep trying to explain.  TCS *does* work on a public server.  And it works precisely because TCS is a formulated set of rules (boundaries and 'rubbish like that') which were formulated to enable a tactical style of play to be conducted on a public server.  What you have surmised (correctly) is that without this framework, TCS on a public server is unworkable.


Edit: it also just occurred to me that while we've been getting on fine with relaxed rules on the private server, this is probably due in no small part to the fact that every player who used to play under the old rules is (consciously or subconsciously) still respecting the old boundaries.  Says to me that if the basic rule is 'stick to the objective' then those boundaries are a sound logical extension of that (ie. they are where they need to be, without being a hinderance).

I think this sums up the discussion... we are looking at it from different ways. I'm saying why do we need boundaries, because all I have seen on our server is dMw only play - where we can have a good game of TCS without them. However, when you invite people from outside of dMw into the server, yeah, maybe they won't play the same way! Perhaps that is the angle I'm missing here. When I see publics on the server, maybe I will see why we need such rules after all, because they won't automatically play in the way we all try to.

[Doorman]

...I'm saying why do we need boundaries, because all I have seen on our server is dMw only play - where we can have a good game of TCS without them.

It's 'the rules' that make them good games. You're suggesting that there should be no rules! Once you start relaxing 'the rules' you have public play.
This won't mean much to you I guess, but it's like in the 60s 'the rules' were relaxed and we've ended up with the society we've got today, pretty much ruleless. But I digress.

 

However, when you invite people from outside of dMw into the server, yeah, maybe they won't play the same way! Perhaps that is the angle I'm missing here. When I see publics on the server, maybe I will see why we need such rules after all, because they won't automatically play in the way we all try to.

You're getting there.

[Chaosphere]

The mistakes of the past are not an excuse for our behaviour in the present. But I digress.


All I ask is that the admins be... friendly... when enforcing the rules. Those of you that played a lot of CS before often take it very seriously (and I'm not saying that is a bad thing!), but this doesn't apply to all of us. One can abide by the rules and still relax a little, so take it easy on us n00bs, ey? Don't want to scare publics off or give them the wrong image of what dMw is about...