Javelin Pledge Thread

[Gorion]

Right, let's get the ball rolling.  Edit(22/11/14 11.56am): This ship would be donated to the dMw organisation.  Which is what it meant before being moderated to kingdom come.

Discussions are going on whether we're going to get this baby as a donation to the community ship.  

Even if enough is pledged, we'll still have to decide whether we're going through with it or not.

200 are available, $2,500 a pop.  Time slots (50 per):


Nov 28th, 6AM PST
Nov 28th, Noon PST
Nov 28th, 6PM PST
Nov 29th, Midnight PST

If you're willing to pledge an amount to the $2,500 total, reply with the amount and I'll add it up.

I'll start it up,

Gorion : $50
Obsydian: $50
Justin Tolerable: $100
Galatoni: $50

Current Total $ 250.00

Left: $2250.00

[smilodon]

Can I make the point, so there is no confusion that while it's fine for Star Citizen players to discuss purchasing assets collectively any purchase would have nothing to do with the dMw organisation or wider community. We do not, and have never asked players to make cash contributions to games. Apart from the voluntary subscription we do not ask players to pay anything additional for community membership, access to games or guilds within games.

Also we have not decided on who will be GL for Star Citizen so have no idea if that person would want to provide as home for the ship. We have no idea how ships can be used and owned within Organisations, how easy it will be to obtain them in game or whether better and bigger ships will become available in due course.

Again feel free to purchase game assets in any way you wish either alone or in groups and feel free to use these forums to discuss and plan such purchases. But you do so without any official backing from the dMw community and the asset will not form part of the dMw Organisations assets.

Thanks and have fun.

[Gorion]

Quite harsh there, and uncalled for smilo.

Never mentioned that anything is set in stone, nor that dMw is requesting money from members, nor that a GL is set, nor that that person would even go with it.  Also didn't state how they can be used and owned, which I actually mentioned that we have no bloody idea how it would work out.  Not to mention that even if it is "pledged", we'd still have to decide whether we're going with it or not.

The discussion is going on here, and as of now, there hasn't been a denial against doing a collaborative purchase, so instead of waiting for the grape to fall into our mouth, we can get the bloody ball rolling and see if there's any actual interest in funding one or not; which is the purpose of this thread.

And no offence, but the dMw community is made up by it's members, so what on earth are you trying to imply here?

[smilodon]

I'm simply making the point that the dMw organisation as part of the wider dMw community has not discussed funding assets in game. We have not appointed a Game Leader, have not appointed admins, have not discussed how we will manage in game assets or actually have any idea how in game assets will be funded or used or what the game mechanics will allow.

The dMw Community does not run a two tier system in games other than for in game organisation i.e. server admins. World of Warcraft raid leaders etc. We do not have a set up where people who pay more for assets get preferential treatment over others. We would never say to a member that someone else has paid more and so gets better access or more game assets etc. Of course as an individual player we're free to spend as much or as little on a game as we want. And clearly in game currency is another matter i.e guild banks and guild taxes, repair costs etc

So players should feel free to discuss buying a Javelin collectively, that's great. And when you have bought it you can fly it, fight in it, enjoy it etc etc. However if you choose to gift it to the dMw Community then you will give up all rights to it, you will get no special treatment, no preferred access and no privileges over a dMw member who has not contributed to it. Who has paid for what and how much will have absolutely nothing to do with how game assets are used.

So if you and others want to spend $2500 on a game asset and then 'give' it to the dMw Organisation then that's incredibly generous and I would like to seriously thank you on behalf of the dMw Leadership. I just think it's important to point out that we will not run a two tier Organisation whereby those how pay more get more. That isn't something specific to this game it's a fundamental principal that is central to the core of what the whole dMw is about be that fps, racing, flying, raiding, minecrafting or space sims.

I would humbly suggest that those of you planning on funding the Javelin do so but maybe keep it as a private asset and loan it out to the dMw Organisation as you see fit, much as our Idris owner plans to do ( if memory serves). While I'm posting here as one of the dMw Community Council (Leaders) - on a personal note I think spending $2500 on something and giving it to the dMw free and clear is frankly too generous, you guys really should keep it. Maybe create a mini Organisation to crew it (I believe you can be in more than one in SC) but that's just my personal opinion.

[Obsydian]

I know that I'm new here and don't really know the lay of the land so to speak, so please forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn, but I've been a part of another community where the group owns in-game assets for the use by the group, so I can see how this could work.

Here's an idea: if enough of us cobble together the funds to buy a Javelin to be used as an org base, we could give it to the org, however, throughout the raising of taxes in-game, the org could, over time, reimburse the investors using in-game currency.

Essentially, this would simply be like an HP agreement on a car: you can save up and buy one eventually (I.e. Use in-game credits and get one in a year or so) or you can take out a loan and get the car now and pay the loan back (I.e. The investors are the bank who get paid back, over time) making use of the car from the get go.

Just a thought is all.

I'd be happy to put in $50 too if it helps.

[Obsydian]

One other thought: I'd recommend whoever gets to buy the ship, does so using an alt account specifically for the purchase as the ship is likely to be account-locked; and then hand over the account to whoever the Game Leader is (or some other well trusted individual) for safekeeping until the PU beta and the ship is fly able.

[Gorion]

And again, I have never stated that there's anything set in stone, which I pointed out quite clearly in my first post.

I have never mentioned two tiered systems, nor any plans to implement one, nor do I care about one; isn't this obvious anyway..?  We're one big family here..  Which is why I suggested that the SC leader (whoever that may be(I put Teaelle's' name there since he's a head admin, and will be playing the game, with a "probably?" since we have no idea on who the SC leader might be, yet it would be safe, and truly available as an org asset if it was in his hangar)) would be it's suggested owner.

And yes, this is about gifting a $2500 ship to the community, which is why the title is "Org Javelin Pledge thread".  The Idris owner (JT) paid the full price for it by himself, which is why he's keeping control of it.  This is member driven pledging, where a number of members put out a promise of monies to a common goal benefiting the community.  This kind of ship has no point in being privately owned, you need a lot of manpower to use it, which is why it is suitable as an org asset.

It's the same thing as buying a dMw server, or being a supporting member, or coming to lans; it benefits everyone in this large family of ours.

So let's leave it at that, and gather up some pledges, so that perhaps we can have this proposed kick-ass org ship.

[Justin Tolerable]

I'll add $100 to the pot, let's do this! Not getting involved in the other arguments

[Galatoni]

I've just decided to focus on the carrack so as luck would have it I've got some spare money. $50 ok for now? I should get paid in a day or so.
Just like to say that in the short time I've been here things have been cool. And people wouldn't be wanting to offer their cash if they didn't want to. I think that any kind of a 'base' would simply be a place to hang out. I agree. It is a nice thing to do for this family of ours. But I'd also not expect anything in return-that's not why I'm taking part.

Tl;Dr; $50 in. Have at it Gorion.

Incidentally I noticed this :

Javelins will be sold stripped of military hardware, and it will be a new starting challenge for players to work together with their organizations to outfit them.

If that isn't a nod to shared assets I don't know what is. I think it's just a matter of time until we could get out hands on one, especially with us working together.

[TeaLeaf]

The Javelin is a mighty ship to be sure, but at $2,500 it's a stretch.  I also read the statement on the Javelin quoted by Galatoni and I think I've concluded this morning that I'd rather leave that sort of ship as an in-game goal than be something we start with.   Even refurbing it with a basic level of equipment is going to take many months, so I'm content to wait as we'd be able to save the in-game cost for it over those months anyway - and let's be honest, with a 50 person org (that hopes to be a little larger at launch) we'd hardly have enough to run it properly, (it will take more people than JT's Idris), so it's money that will be at risk in game or under-used.

Personally I see DMW having more coop fun at the Carrack level and that's where I'll be putting my money on 28th November when it goes on sale.

Re the collective purchase of a Javelin:
If folks want to group up and buy one then there is no problem, it's your call not ours.  I think what Smilo was trying to point out Gorion, is that we have no way of controlling the fair use of that asset within the game at the moment, so you might end up contributing to something that we lose because someone joins a different org/community.  Until organizations have a way of holding org assets there are risks attached to group buys - that's all that is being said, you do it at your own risk.

[Gorion]

There's always some risk involved.  To solve the problem of being tied to a person; if this even happens - This idea is brilliant:

One other thought: I'd recommend whoever gets to buy the ship, does so using an alt account specifically for the purchase as the ship is likely to be account-locked; and then hand over the account to whoever the Game Leader is (or some other well trusted individual) for safekeeping until the PU beta and the ship is fly able.

The holders of said account could be the dMw Admins.  That ensures that it would eventually end up as an org ship, and I wouldn't think any Admin here is about to run off with it.

[TeaLeaf]

It's certainly the way you could do it, but as you said it is only patching the underlying problem, for example the original email also has to go with the account, which is even then still at risk from the 'recovery email' option.   EU law allows it, but any non-EU contributor may not see it the same way (local law decides), so the practicalities are only simple until it goes wrong.  

I'm not saying don't do it,  Smilo is not saying you can't do it, but we're saying we're not doing this as a dMw-owned ship, and we're wishing that RSI had released the next phase of the social module to bulk up on organization controls and specifically group asset contols.

For me, I'm passing on the Javelin and waiting for the Carrack.   I'm intending to make as much of my fleet as is possible (or sensible) available to the DMW org, so that's my way of contributing to the fleet.

[Gorion]

We have dMw e-mails right?

So, if this happens, just make an org e-mail account and that's another risk taken care of.  Might be a good idea to use when SC implement the social module; even if this doesn't realise.

[albert]

I also agree with the approach TL is suggesting here to grind out the requirements of big ships in game for the good of the Org rather than fork out more money. I personally am thinking of melting my Aurora LN and Herald because the Carrack is more expensive than I expected but I'd rather get the additional cost covered by the smaller ships. I'll be disappointed about losing the Herald but the Carrack is more important to me.

[Gorion]

There's no guarantee you'll manage to find one in-game.  Carraks are nice, but this is not a Carrak, it's a destroyer.

It's simple, if you don't like the idea, don't pledge to the idea.  No hard feelings.

I like the idea, so I pledged to the idea.