STAR and PACT

[smilodon]

Joining PACT will have some administrative requirements from us, which I assume isn't an issue, but will also affect the play style and actions of our own members in the following way:

• Don't attack or be nasty to other PACT members. Sort things out diplomatically.
• We need to define 'Exclusive membership' withing our Org and PACT what that means and then enforce it within dMw.
• No piracy. No mindless ganking, griefing or general naughtiness.
• Look out for and where possible help other PACT members who are getting shot up unless doing so would get you killed.

So our membership of PACT will effectively be saying to dMw members "If you want to play SC and you want to play in the dMw then these are things you can and cannot do". I don't see an issue with that but as it will directly impact on everyone's play style maybe we should give everyone a heads up as to what will be involved, what the pluses and minuses are.

[OldBloke]

... So our membership of PACT will effectively be saying to dMw members "If you want to play SC and you want to play in the dMw then these are things you can and cannot do".

In a nutshell it says 'Play SC the dMw way'. Their rules echo our ethos pretty well, IMHO.

[TeaLeaf]

The admin requirements fall on me (as you bar-stewards voted it to me at the BBQ). :narnar:

Nothing in the treaty has changed substantively so far as I can tell (I found time to read it this morning during my cup of tea).  I've sent back a couple of spelling errors, but other than that the intent has not changed since the last version we all agreed on.  

I don't see a problem with letting members know, especially as it aligns with the way we want our organisation to run, so it should not be a problem.  We've already said (prior to STAR/PACT) that we don't want piracy, we don't want ganking etc, so it's not really that different.  

The exclusive membership is already pretty much what we do - we want people to represent dMw, but not so strictly that we would exclude membership of another org that was e.g. a small group of friends, or 'club' (e.g. Idris Owner's Club) or a non-PU group (e.g. the SC Meetup Group).  Do we need to define it beyond that?

Edit: Oldie posted whilst I was typing and he said it in a much more succinct way!   +1 to his comments!

[Obsydian]

Yeah, I had a quick read through at lunch today and it doesn't look any different to me (but then my memory isn't that good!), so it's a +1 from me, too.

[smilodon]

Probably the thing to think about and make clear to the rank and file is that membership of PACT has gameplay requirements

1. Anyone who wants to play SC under the dMW banner 'must not' attack PACT members, so should be aware of who they are (keep a list).
2. Don't roll a Pirate or do pirate like stuff.

If you do either of these things then either don't join the dMw Organisation or expect to get sent into the naughty corner.

[TeaLeaf]

Probably the thing to think about and make clear to the rank and file is that membership of PACT has gameplay requirements

1. Anyone who wants to play SC under the dMW banner 'must not' attack PACT members, so should be aware of who they are (keep a list).
2. Don't roll a Pirate or do pirate like stuff.

If you do either of these things then either don't join the dMw Organisation or expect to get sent into the naughty corner.

#2 is already on our org page, so it is out there already.

[TeaLeaf]

On the basis of the above I gave the go ahead to Ephraim to proceed with our PACT app.

[Obsydian]

Excellent!

[TeaLeaf]

I followed up with Ephraim to get some timescales.  Here is the email chain which I hope everyone is ok with in terms of the language used.  
(apologies to our golden leader, Smilodon, as I mentioned Oldbloke in my last email as that was who I had talked to Ephraim about during our initial conversations.  No offence intended!)

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Tealeaf wrote:
Hi Ephraim

I'm not chasing, just trying to ascertain the timescale that the process (member questions for us, then the TS meeting etc) usually takes and when a meeting then might be.   If there's no clear answer then that's fine, but it would be nice to know roughly what the timescale usually is so that I can tell the other board members of the org when to expect something!

Any info you have would be good!

Many thanks.

Regards

Tealeaf
Dead Men Walking

On 21 October 2015 at 19:03, PACT Administrator wrote:
Chasing is perfectly acceptable!

So far, feedback has been positive.  There have been requests for clarification on two points:

1)  What is your stance on piracy?
2)  What is your ideal alliance approach/structure?

I know the two of us have talked about the first, but a few Representatives would like to hear your own words on the matter.  The second is a bit nebulous, and has to do with the fact that PACT doesn't operate like your typical "hard" alliance.  The Council wants to be sure that both our viewpoints align.  You can answer either questions here, or wait for your in-person Q&A meeting.

Speaking of meetings, the next PACT meeting will be next Friday, 30 October at 2200 UTC. I'll let you know by the end of the day tomorrow if I can get you on the agenda - we have a lot to discuss, and I want to be sure that you get a proper amount of attention.

Barring that, you'll definitely be invited to the following meeting.  With the switch in Daylight Savings Time, we're moving to the last Saturday of the month at 1200 UTC.  This would be Saturday, 28 November.  We usually skip December due to the holidays.

Thank you very much for your patience!

Ephraim

Hi Ephraim

In answer to the two questions:

We did state twice in our application that piracy is not allowed and we do not support it.   Primarily, piracy goes against dMw's own community principles, not just PACT's.  

• We don't have an ideal structure in mind for an alliance, there are and will be many that would work well, so setting arbitrary restrictions on structure would be counter-productive.  We look more for qualities that align with our own principles and beliefs. Quoting from our website landing page (referred to in our application):

   â€œDead Men Walking is a long *established multi*gaming community with an excellent reputation for fair play, mature attitude and teamwork. Established in 1996 our continuing mission is to provide a home for PC gamers who recognise that achieving success as part of a team is far more rewarding than racking up individual scores. Quite simply, frag*hunters, lone wolves, griefers, cheats and the plain selfish will not fit in here.”
The key to our approach is the first and last sentence of that paragraph.  If an alliance supports fair play, operates with a mature attitude and respects teamwork then we're interested.   Another way of putting it would be to ask yourself:

   What would I do to help my best friend?
Our answer to that question would be that we'd be there to help and stand with them in their hour of need.   Unless we're mistaken, we interpret PACT as that kind of alliance.

Alongside the mutual defence aspect, we'd hope that within an Alliance there was opportunity to participate in operations with other Alliance members.   Our community loves tactical & teamwork, that doesn't mean it has to be military action, it might be sharing the exploration of a sector of space etc.  The fact that as individuals our members own such a high number of multicrew ships should tell you how much we want to work with others on projects or missions.[/list]
Hopefully that tells you what we look for in an Alliance, but please feel free to ask more questions if you need more info.

If we get invited to a meeting with PACT members, I'd hope to be able to bring along Oldbloke, who like me has been a member of Dead Men Walking for almost 20 years.   Oldbloke and I are both Board members of our Star citizen org, but we also ran the dMw community together as Head Admins for over 10 years, so we know each other and our joint ethos very well and have grown our membership with these same ethics since dMw first started back in the 1990's.

I hope that this answers your questions, but feel free to fire more back at me Ephraim if additional clarification  is sought.  

I'll wait to hear from you.

Regards

Tealeaf
Dead Men Walking

[OldBloke]

Invite accepted.

Thanks for leading on this, Paul. Shame they don't appear to read what we send them :sideways:

[TeaLeaf]

Invite accepted.

Thanks for leading on this, Paul. Shame they don't appear to read what we send them :sideways:

I suspect most of them did (as sort of indicated by Ephraim), but there's always someone 'special' who needs a prompt!

[TeaLeaf]

November it will be.

Hi Tealeaf!

I've passed your answers on.  I don't have any further for you at the moment - I'll keep prodding the Council along.

We do have an overflowing agenda for this month's meeting, so I'll schedule you for November.  I'll be sure to send you a reminder the week of, with the login information for our TS server.  Oldbloke is welcome as well!

Thank you,

Ephraim

[TeaLeaf]

Calendar invite sent out to Obsydian & Smilo for the online/TS meeting with members of the PACT council at 1300 UTC/GMT on 21/11.  Hopefully one of  you will be about to support me at the meeting as Oldie is on holiday that day!

[Obsydian]

I'm dependent upon the wife's schedule that day and may not be around (we may be visiting her mother!), but I'll try to be there if I can squeeze it in before we leave.

[TeaLeaf]

TS details for the meeting.  Fingers crossed for either Paul or Greg to be available to accompany me.

Hello Tealeaf!

Our meeting is just around the corner!  As I mentioned earlier, we're scheduled for this Saturday, 21 November at 1300 UTC.  Here are our TeamSpeak credentials:

Address: voip.systemsunitednavy.com:9987
Password:  dmwguest

I'll try to be online and available an hour prior to our meeting.  If you run into any technical issues, please let me know ASAP and I'll get you sorted.

Thank you very much!

Ephraim