Endeavour

Galatoni · September 24, 2015, 10:52:12 AM

Its that time again. Considerations to make (for me at least, one of those is no longer cash! I can't add any more money into the game). But the endeavour is a really interesting ship. Considering it as a replacement for the Carrack or my Retaliator + Gemini... not sure yet.

Anyone have any thoughts? I know people are against the idea of investing more and thats fine, but this is just more of a talk about the pros and cons of this ship.

Gorion · September 24, 2015, 11:01:57 AM

Definitely not pouring more money into it.

I was actually considering of selling a bunch of my ships.

TeaLeaf · September 24, 2015, 11:29:29 AM

The Endeavour research platform was the last ship on my preferred list. Over time I've acquired some other ships as 'investments' and I'll be using that cash (and profit) to fund an Endeavour.

Obsydian · September 24, 2015, 09:59:21 PM

I'll be watching the info that comes out about the Endeavour and make a decision nearer the time, but it's quite likely that I'm going to end up with one!

Obsydian · September 26, 2015, 12:27:57 AM

It'll be up on sale on Tuesday:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/286424

Obsydian · September 30, 2015, 08:07:38 AM

Aaaaand they're up!

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14972-Research-Unbound-The-MISC-Endeavor

Heres the design document:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/14974-Design-Science-And-The-Endeavor

Oh how my wallet is crying. :vsorry:

Galatoni · September 30, 2015, 08:17:30 AM

To be honest. I'm pretty disappointed. Its a lovely idea but its quite limited. Its ok saying you can add one of the various pods but there is basically no defence. Poor weapons and shielding. I understand it would be used to make up part of a fleet but tactically it's not even close to even protecting itself at any level. Not expecting a fortress or anything.

Justin Tolerable · September 30, 2015, 08:45:09 AM

Quote from: Galatoni;404473To be honest. I'm pretty disappointed. Its a lovely idea but its quite limited. Its ok saying you can add one of the various pods but there is basically no defence. Poor weapons and shielding. I understand it would be used to make up part of a fleet but tactically it's not even close to even protecting itself at any level. Not expecting a fortress or anything.

I'm with you there. Also I hate to say it, but "feature creep" with the whole farming thing. It has to be so far down the priority list that I'll be 10 years older before I see it.

Otherwise, it's about what I expected. It does seem that something with such a large tactical impact as a hospital ship should be better protected though. Or drugs lab - who ever thought they would be completely defenceless?

I'll probably get one though, to be honest. Have faith that it'll be balanced up. It'll probably be the general science variant though.

smilodon · September 30, 2015, 09:48:58 AM

It's a nice idea but I agree it should have been far further down the todo list. I still think to create a richer world we need more variation in ship design down at the fighter and smaller multi crew ship level. What we have is nice but there seems to be one ship to fill each role. Cheap fighter, powerful fighter, fast fighter etc. I'm worried the worlds will look very 'samey' with what is a relatively small number of variations of each ship type.

Justin Tolerable · September 30, 2015, 11:45:59 AM

Quote from: smilodon;404482It's a nice idea but I agree it should have been far further down the todo list. I still think to create a richer world we need more variation in ship design down at the fighter and smaller multi crew ship level. What we have is nice but there seems to be one ship to fill each role. Cheap fighter, powerful fighter, fast fighter etc. I'm worried the worlds will look very 'samey' with what is a relatively small number of variations of each ship type.

Yeah. I'd like to see Origin's version of a Superhornet, for example. Also some more single seat general purpose ships. At the moment we have the Aurora, Mustang, 300i and Avenger. I feel like these could be expanded.

Anyway I bought an Endeavour. I've been waiting too long for this ship not to. Discovery class, with an additional couple of pods. For I am a sucker. Although I did melt for about 2/3rds of it.

Obsydian · September 30, 2015, 12:02:41 PM

There will be more small ships in the future - you have to bear in mind that they need to get a working game up and running first, and the variations that we can have with the currently proposed set of ships is not insignificant.

Regarding sole-purpose ships, again, it has to be borne in mind that these are the "end game" versions of ships that exploit the raw, high-end speciality of the specific game mechanic that is being built into the game, and that smaller ships will be designed and released that fill in the progression "gap" between the smaller ships and these behemoths.

As for being defenceless and/or non-combative, you have to remember that not everyone wants to be a fighter pilot or even be engaged in combat of any sort. There are a lot of people out there who want to be farmers or drugs manufacturers, or provide a service such as over-clocking components or helping stranded/injured pilots, not to mention those who just want to explore (which this ships seems to be able to excel at). Ok, it may be worth taking an escort or two, but that will depend on where you're going and what you're planning on doing.

And there will be defensive modules in the future which "provide an Endeavor with a diverse array of defensively-orientated weaponry that would greatly improve its chances of escaping a dangerous confrontation with minimal damage".

My biggest disappointment is with the respawn mechanic they're proposing. I'm not happy with a rescued player being able to respawn a small ship in the hangar bay, and would prefer that the ship need to ferry players to planets or space stations, but then I guess they have to do this in order to not negatively impact the gameplay of either the rescuer or the rescuee.

Justin Tolerable · September 30, 2015, 01:37:36 PM

To be honest, I'm one of the peaceful ones. I'd still like a couple more guns to fend off the less peaceful types though, especially as it's a big target. And honestly, nobody would be more delighted than me if they get farming in there, but it doesn't feel well thought through right now. Why are we farming in space instead of a planet? These plants must have ideal conditions on a planet somewhere. Why is it we can create a spacefaring farmyard, but we're unable to automate the watering system? Isn't there a safer way to farm in the future than to put things in big, fragile looking greenhouses? I'm sure these ideas will develop, but I think this concept was rushed out a little. Just look at the super collider; it's labelled as a 'gravity ring' in one of the images, suggesting that they drew it and tried to work out what it was afterwards.

I quite like the respawn mechanic. It seems like a reasonably decent compromise between high speed action and slow paced realism. I didn't get the impression that a new ship spawns - I thought they used the word 'delivered'? I took this to mean there would be a time delay between being revived and your ship arriving. If this is adjusted based on the rarity of the ship, location of the nearest supplier etc then I think it could work. I like that it creates a peaceful combat support role, too.

Despite all my criticisms, I still really like it. I bought one, at least

I just expect that it'll be developed quite a lot before it's even close to release.

Obsydian · September 30, 2015, 02:13:48 PM

Yeah, I think you're right: the replacement ship has to be delivered, but it looks like the delivery time may be faked somewhat (pay a premium for the rapid and remote delivery), but again, I guess that has to do with keeping the pace of the game as fluid as possible for those involved (who wants to hang around in a waiting room for several hours?).

I got one too!

albert · September 30, 2015, 02:16:23 PM

I love how you guys talk each other into it [emoji3]

Justin Tolerable · September 30, 2015, 04:03:18 PM

Quote from: Obsydian;404518Yeah, I think you're right: the replacement ship has to be delivered, but it looks like the delivery time may be faked somewhat (pay a premium for the rapid and remote delivery), but again, I guess that has to do with keeping the pace of the game as fluid as possible for those involved (who wants to hang around in a waiting room for several hours?).

I got one too!

Excellent! Which setup did you go for? I went with the Discovery with added fuel and telescope. I'm sure the delivery times will be faked for new ships, but so long as it's in the name of game balancing, I think that's a pretty good mechanic. I think of it as the round timer in games like Counterstrike. It's better to have it than instant respawns.

Quote from: albert;404519I love how you guys talk each other into it [emoji3]

Yup. It had to happen. Here's my current wallpaper - by the time it comes out, I won't even need to play the game at all. Wait...