Winter Tyres - ratings

Started by TeaLeaf, October 24, 2015, 01:34:12 PM

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TeaLeaf

In the UK winter tyres are not legally required, but this year through sheer bad luck I have all four of my Pirelli P Zero tyres approaching the wear bar at the same time, so with all the 'el nino' stories and the predicted cold (for the UK) winter I thought I would swap out these tyres and buy four new (non-studded) winter tyres.

First thought - buy a cheap set of alloy rims and stick the tyres on those.   Clearly my idea of cheap is not the same as the retailers.  I was thinking max £250, they seem to think £400+.  So I'll be sticking to my normal rims.

Second thought - why the heck are winter tyres so much more expensive in the UK?    On average for my tyres size they are about £30-40 per corner more expensive than my normal tyres.

Final thought - which winter tyres are best?   Use the EU rating system I thought, which gives the Winter Snowflake on the side and rates the tyre for Fuel Economy, Wet Braking and Noise Level.

Fuel Economy rating - this is useless imo as the difference between the best and worst rating amount to about 6 litres of fuel over the life of the tyre.    I am really not going to be choosing a tyre on that basis.

Wet Braking - yes this to me is a mandatory category in which a winter tyre has to be rated above average.  So why are so many top brands rated 'C' or worse for the most important performance aspect of winter tyres?  I want 'B' or better (and good luck finding any rated 'A' as I could not find any).

Noise  Level - ok, I'd prefer quieter, but I'm not massively fussed by this one, so it's a preference not mandatory.

Research Results:
Antares Grip 20 - rated E-B-B  (FuelEco-WetBr-Noise)
So on this basis, the best performing tyre and also one of the best prices I found was the for the Antares Grip 20.  I can pick them up for £54 each which is stunning value compared to the £150 for so called premium brands which are officially rated worse.   All seems too good to be true though, so I do some web research.   Apparently the Antares Grip 20 is a chinese tyre (which is not necessarily a problem) and is also marketed as the Maxtrek M7 and the Sonny WOT 18.  

The Winter Tyre Test:
So I do more research and find the Maxtrek M7 turns up on the tyrereviews.co.uk website in their 2014 Winter Tyres test.  
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2014-50-Winter-Tyre-Braking-Overview.htm

So I think that the tyre should be right up near the top of the pile right?  I mean it's a 'B' for wet braking, so must beat the 'C' and 'D' rated tyres yes?   No, apparently this is wrong.  The winning tyre in their test was the:

Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3
- stopped in 35.7m in the Wet Braking test
- stopped in 27.9m in the Snow Braking test

Maxtrek M7/Sonny WOT 18/Antares Grip 20
- stopped in 48.2m in the Wet Braking test (12.5m or 35% worse)
- stopped in 52.7m in the Snow Braking test (24.8m or 89% worse)

The Maxtrek came 49th out of 50 tyres in their test, with their measurement of the Sonny version ranking a simply horrendously low score.  Put simply, in snow you'd be slide an additional distance of over two double decker buses before the Maxtrek/Sonny/Antares brought you to a halt.

So how in hell can BOTH tyres be rated 'B' for 'Wet Braking'?  

Can someone explain to me how a consumer is meant to make an educated choice when the official ratings are so massively out of whack with the actual tyre performance?  

Price:
4 x Antares Grip 20 = £216.16
4 x Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3 = £488

For the love of , can we please have a winter tyre grading system that actually means something and is not completely bullshit?

:racing::angry:
TL.
Wisdom doesn\'t necessarily come with age. Sometimes age just shows up all by itself.  (Tom Wilson)
Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships. (Michael Jordan)

smilodon

"EU Rating System" should answer your question. Their tyre ratings are probably as useless as their fuel economy rating. I'd always go with professional looking web site reviews and aggregate the results of several of them. On that basis I'd probably feel happier driving around on a set of Pirelli's.
smilodon
Whatever's gone wrong it's not my fault.

TeaLeaf

4 x Pirelli Sottozero 3 now ordered from Oponeo.  Conclusion: cheaper is not always better.

I've decided the alloys need a refurb too, so no need to pay for fitting & balancing as the alloy refurb company will do that for me when they refurb the rims.
TL.
Wisdom doesn\'t necessarily come with age. Sometimes age just shows up all by itself.  (Tom Wilson)
Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships. (Michael Jordan)

DannagE

Best I've had on mine were the NOKIAN WR A3 XL. These things were amazing when he had that bad winter here. When range rovers were getting stuck on the hills with the wrong tyres on I was going up them in my Megane :D

I've got some Hankook Icebear W300's on my winter rims at the moment and they aren't anywhere close to the Nokians.

When it comes to replacing them again I will be getting Nokians! They are a Finnish manufacturer, from a country where its cold and snowy alot of the time. They know how to make winter tyres!!
http://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/car-tyres/nokian/wr-a3/235-40-r18-95-v-xl.html

DannagE

Just got 2 new tyres to replace the shocking Icebears for next winter. Got them for half price because someone got delivered the wrong tyres :)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3559[/ATTACH]

Nokian Weatherproof (*sic*)

Autoexpress thought they were pretty good though - http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/92865/nokian-weatherproof-tyre-review

Vargen

I use Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 on my BMW. They are as good as studded winter tires on snow and ice. They do sacrifice stopping distance on wet roads to achieve it though.

Always good to read up on tires, and know the limitations and characteristics of the one you choose.
Battle.net - Varg#2301 | Steam - Varg1983 | Origin - Varg1983 | Warframe - Varg1


faust82

#6
First of all, if you guys get non-studded winter tyres, remove them in the spring. The compound in them is different from summer tires to give good grip and malleability in lower average temperatures, so in summer/higher temperatures they are actually quite dangerous. That goes double for wet summer roads. Keep two sets, one for summer and one for winter, and rotate between them.

I had Hakka R2 on my old beamer as well. They are brilliant tires, never had any problems getting around with them even in spots where I had to give up on the studded ones they replaced (then again, aging studded tires are horrible, especially when you've lost half the studs :p)
Now I'm on the Firestone's that came with my current car, since they were only one season old. Not entirely comfortable with them, I feel I had better grip on the '92 320 than the '10 525.

Every single year, Nokian and Continental duke it out for the top spot in the scandinavian tests, but those weight ice and snow heavily since we see a bit more of it than you guys. There's also the issue of what happens when the tires age, the compound hardens and the thread gets worn.

Here's the rankings for braking distance on wet asphalt, 80km/h to 0, by NAF (Norwegian version of the AA). These are all nordic compound tires, so they're formulated for a bit lower average temp than what may be in the UK market. Might give you an idea of what to avoid though.

1. Gislaved Nord Frost 100, 36,3 meters (studded tires, included as reference).
2. Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice 2, 37,3 m.
12. Pirelli, Ice Zero R, 40,4 m.
14. Michelin X-Ice X13, 41,9 m.
15. Nordman RS, 41,9 m.
16. Continental VikingContact 6, 42,4 m.
18. Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2, 43,6 m.
19. Bridgestone Blizzak WS80, 43,9 m.
20. Nankang, Ice Activa Ice-1, 43,9 m.

Another table from a NAF test last year tested new, medium worn and really worn winter tires against eachother. The test was braking on ice from 50km/h
[TABLE=class: objectTable, width: 540]
[TR]
[TD]Tire[/TD]
[TD=align: center]Braking distance (m)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Nokian (best studded)[/TD]
[TD=align: right]50,5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Continental (best non-studded)[/TD]
[TD=align: right]68,0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Worn non-studded 6 mm thread depth[/TD]
[TD=align: right]77,5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Worn studded 6 mm thread depth[/TD]
[TD=align: right]80,3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Worn non-studded 3 mm thread depth[/TD]
[TD=align: right]90,7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Worn studded 3mm thread depth[/TD]
[TD=align: right]97,4[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Coppula Eam, Se Non Posit Acceptera Jocularum!

TeaLeaf

Just to report back in the Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3 tyres: they have served well and completed the best part of 3 winter seasons.  Been very pleased with performance and seemed way better than normal tyres to my feel behind the wheel.   They have just been consigned to the recycler as worn out.  

Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3 - highly recommended.   Winter tyres - highly recommended.
TL.
Wisdom doesn\'t necessarily come with age. Sometimes age just shows up all by itself.  (Tom Wilson)
Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships. (Michael Jordan)