de_aztec - match feedback - 31/10/02

[TeaLeaf]

Well we had a tough match against better opposition last night and lost 23-1.  I think we could have done better but I didn't exactly provide inspirational leadership    In our defence they were much better shots than we were and they also benefited from some well timed lag spikes (usually just as we exited the double doors - we lagged, they shot us).

Where did they beat us?  Well when they were CT they tended to send 3 to the bridge and 3 to the top site.  Only then did some of the bridge and top site people cover the middle and drop down in to the water.  As soon as they saw us the seemed to be able to get a shot off and we were dead.  They were also extremely deadly with HE around the double doors.  On 4 rounds of the 12 I died when I was blown up by a single HE explosion - now why can't the HEs that I throw do the same level of damage?

As T they simply overpowered us and rushed top site almost every round.  They got to us so quick that you had no cover behind the stones  :cry:

But they also seemed to get much further into the map than we would have done if we were CTs.  For example, I recognise that running (knife out) will get a CT to the bridge and almost half way along it before a T appears at their side of the bridge.  And I recognise that a T can get through the double doors as you approach the stones piled up at the upper bomb site, but when they were CT they were getting 2 or 3 people past the upper bomb site and therefore were able to pick us off with a clear line of sight and relative ease.

I know that it was not down to slow weapon purchasing at spawn - I was running a buy script and was waiting for the clock to start on every round.  Almost all of the rest of our team had buy scripts, so it was generally not us being slow out of spawn.  (those members of the team who didn't have a buy script will, I am sure, get one real soon - just read the forums for a list of several used by other members).

Questionnable Comment:  Now I know that we have covered this on the forums before, but every now and then you come up against a team that is able to advance further and faster on a map than you are or ever have been able to do yourself.

The question:  How?

Anyone got any clues?  Or am I just being paranoid......

TL.  
In search of a better understanding, pure karma and a pint of real ale.

[Dr Sadako]

Questionnable Comment: Now I know that we have covered this on the forums before, but every now and then you come up against a team that is able to advance further and faster on a map than you are or ever have been able to do yourself.

The question: How?

Anyone got any clues? Or am I just being paranoid......

TL.
In search of a better understanding, pure karma and a pint of real ale.

That the one who spawn closest to either side go there instead of going to just one site independently of spawn loaction.

Or you could just cheat and increase your running speed.  :twisted:

[JonnyAppleSeed]

sadako has a point dedicated spawn point roles can realy gain a couple of seconds at the start of any round .. the trick is having the backup to make it count

[Doorman]

Like El Capitano, I was off my blocks pretty sharpish but only to walk straight into a hail of bullet. Yes, bullet. I soon got the impression that we were all rushing headlong to our demise as if we were promised 70 virgins.
It's like we were being made to play their game, not ours. There was an attempt to slow it down in one round when we were told to wait for one minute (quite right in my veiw) but we barely lasted 40 seconds! Couldn't wait to get our filthy paws on them virgins I guess.  
Soundly thrashed.  

[TeaLeaf]

Trouble with them was even when we waited and tried to slow it down, it just meant that they advanced - and we then often got stuck in an even tighter bottleneck than before  Hence I didn;t bother trying to slow it down after that - I saw no point.  

The other thing to remember is that we usually need to play 'their game' not ours, to win matches.

TL.  

[DonkeyCheeseGrater]

To go to the position nearest your spawn point would have definately helped, it was easier and much more effective pushing straight across the bridge, the earlier the better, still doesnt help you with the one shot wonders. Half the time you dont even get to press the trigger let alone miss them, before you hit the deck..  

[albert]

I reakon they cheated  :x  I watched the kills rise on my HLSW client and that Nomad was getting 4 or 5 a round! Maybe they set their server up to do more damage with the HE and they know to buy them and throw them like hell all over the place.
I was on another server today and Art of War counter-strike.net official server. And at the start of a round, as CT on de-dust2 I'd buy and ready myself for the 0 timer and run like hell to defend long A. But as I got to the top of the slope (not 30 metres away from my starting postition) there was already a T on the left hand side boxes at the bottom long A with an AWM killing us all as we came round the corner. Not 5 seconds into the game!
Now that's a speed hack. And on an offical valve server. So it they can't detect and police it then neither can anyone.

I wouldn't image DT were cheating but when I saw these scores clocking up I though shyt that's mad.

Nice try guys rather you than me in that fire or frying pan or whatever.  

[MisterEggs]

Great match write up, TL. That's very much how i (painfully) recalled it (Note to self: Record the match, dagnabbit!). They just seemed to be everywhere, and wherever we went they were 20 of them either waiting for us backed up by artillery or advancing on us like a psychotic panzer division. Oldie asked afterwards if it was their superior tactics, but to be perfectly honest we were usually all dead before i had any clue what the hell was going on anyhoo.

The speed that they reached important positions was indeed quite scary and, i hate to say it, possibly a little questionable. i spawned near my chosen position as CT (middle/water) often, using my buy script (can i afford secondary ammo this time...?) and still managed to get there as they were cheerfully legging it toward the DD site and planting away.

i don't know, i really don't. Maybe they were just genuinely fast and i'm casting aspersions when i oughtn't.

And, possibly casting those same aspersions recklessly once more, i remember calmly shooting that guy Nomad from head to toe while he busied himself dispatching many of my fellow team-mates and it having the same effect as a jolly good talking-to. Needless to say, as he felt my pathetic girly blows about his person he turned around and shredded me into a particularly saucy bolognese.

Again, i could be completely off the mark and it was a simple case that they were just ultimately superior and didn't employ any underhandedness at all, but as a dMw member i'm not unfamiliar with a thoroughly good raping but this felt different, that we really stood no chance whatever we did or however we did it.

As a result of this, two thoughts:

Thought One: It would be interesting to have a rematch with them on BlackAdder.

Thought Two: i personally feel that recording all matches by all involved (on our side that is) should be mandatory. A, It would make any suspicions like these easier to clear up - B, we could archive them for use of future strategy and tactical planning - and C, might provide some light entertainment in a "You've been raped!" kind of way for those long winter nights ahead.

Thought Three: i didn't think there was a Thought Three.

[Armitage]

can we start having HLTV on matches so we can all watch.

and would would the ip address be

[TeaLeaf]

I think HLTV or demos would certainly help us understand what the other team was doing - we may even pick up some tips.  

I also agree with the point raised about each member going to the defensive point nearest to them.  This is something that we used to do but if just one member gets it wrong you end up with a hole in your coverage - and it is usually the hole that the other team are rushing through  8O   So we ended up going to the same point each time for simplicity's sake.

Personally I vote for go to the point nearest you - but it relies on your team mates saying WHERE they are going EXACTLY.....AND more difficult still, working out on the fly that there are already 5 going to the bridge and that maybe going to the other site would be preferrable.  Total Reliance on team mates.  Not everyone can do that - but I think we ought to start practicing it more on our server so that we can do it in matches.

TL.  

[Dr Sadako]

Don't fool yourself guys. There are people out there that needs to win at any cost. Sometimes that involves rigging the game. This is one reason why I think that all matches should be played on a neutral server. I know this is difficult to accomplish.

Is it possible to force the other team to make a run test? It would be really interesting to see who runs fastest with only a knife ...

[TeaLeaf]

BTW Sadako - seeing as you have been so kind to me on the server recently (personally killing me only 95% of the time instead of the 100% that have recently been doing) I now have decided that rather than strap your picture to the biggest firework rocket I can find, I will simply spray paint it.  Thank you for the link to your work website which enabled the leeching of said photo and the subsequent grafitti


TL.  

[Doorman]

If you wanted to prove you were not running faster than anyone else, would you run as fast in a test? Don't think so.

[Doorman]

Reading TeaLeaf's post prompted me to look at Sadako's webbie. Great site, particularly like the bit about mesoporous materials, what a hoot!  

[Stryker]

so which one is he? (on the staff pages?)

I bet the one in the dress :-)