Hippy Alert

OldBloke · December 20, 2002, 04:45:34 PM

Gollum was better

Anonymous · December 20, 2002, 06:48:54 PM

LOL

MAD_ness · December 20, 2002, 07:14:54 PM

watched it last night ........good film...a "must see" at the pictures for its full effect.
A few "cheesey" moments can be excused for the rest of the movie !

GO SEE !!

smite · December 20, 2002, 07:29:30 PM

Now thats a reply i can cope with short to the point and i didnt yawn once :wink:

JonnyAppleSeed · December 20, 2002, 07:40:25 PM

Top film one to buy..........Gollum made it for me ....exelent cgi

smilodon · December 20, 2002, 10:57:32 PM

My discourse (new word for the day :-) ) is obviously with someone who is far far more familiar with Tolkeins work than me and I'm quite prepared to re-consider my original view-point.

There isn't really a specific set of points to illustrate my argument. LOTR was conceived by a man who lived through WWII. I think I can see the way that experience subtly affected his work. The good struggling against evil, the two sides of the coin, the black and the white of it. With the exception of Tom all characters are required to make a stark choice between good or bad. It's the simplicity of the concept I felt was from an earlier time.

I could argue Star Wars was popular exactly because it harked back to an earlier style of story-telling, where things were 'simpler' and it was a clear battle between good and evil.

Now this is a horrid generalisation for a work like LOTR I know. But as I read it I believe, perhaps naively, that in the fifties people took a different view to the world and had less of the cynicism of modern times.

Tolkein was non the less able to create an extraordinary world filled with fascinating characters involved in an amazing story. The simple moral dilemma facing them all was part of it's charm.

Jackson managed to capture that in the first film, mainly because he included plenty of dialogue. The interaction between the characters allowed us to learn who they were as the film went along. The growing friendship between Gimlie and Legolas for example.

In the second film there was less dialogue and more action. For me this meant that new characters were less well developed, especially the Rohan's. While still and extraordinary film, it lacked the intimacy of the first film and was a little weaker for it.

Gollum was perfect both in visual look, mannerism and character. Standing him beside Jar Jar shows it's not just money and cgi effects that builds believable artificial characters, someone (probably more than one) involved in the creative process has to have immense artistic talent too.

Do I win a prize for the dullest post in this forum

smite · December 20, 2002, 11:50:19 PM

Seeing as i really didnt read that post at all and just skipped to the end you could well have done, i have to be honest i lost interest at discourse

smilodon · December 21, 2002, 12:09:40 AM

The worrying truth is that I did too.

Actually NO! it was, in fact, an inciteful and reasoned appraisal of the translation of JRRT's work from paper to celluloid and not the ramblings of an elf obsessed retard.

Go back and read it now! There may be a test!

CiM · December 21, 2002, 12:14:56 AM

QuoteNeutron"]discourse etc etc etc

I think you hit several nails on their heads in this post

Very good. I agree completely.

QuoteNeutron"]LOTR was conceived by a man who lived through WWII. I think I can see the way that experience subtly affected his work. The good struggling against evil, the two sides of the coin, the black and the white of it.

Tolkien often vigorously denied that WWII had anything to do with the plot of his book. He also said that he didn't particularly think one side was Good and one was Bad in WWII - IIRC (which is debatable). Of course, that doesn't mean he wasn't affected by it

But he certainly wanted us to think that his book wasn't, and I understand that and believe it to be true.

QuoteNeutron"]Do I win a prize for the dullest post in this forum

Not a chance. I think I've won it three posts running.

- CiM

smite · December 21, 2002, 12:20:21 AM

I would like to but....nah i wouldnt really
I have read the books and they are very good BUT i dont over analise things so im afraid i cant join....but they were very good and i would recommend a read by everybody and i am looking forward to this movie because book 2 was my favourite out of the 3.

If you like these books read "The Wheel of time" set by Robert jordan as they are excellent and i personally think better than Tolkein (smite steps back and watches argument over this) i am still only on book 3 out of 9 but i am hooked cant actually put them down.

AAAaaaah i got all serious stop doing that to me :x :x

EEeerr rasberryketchupbannanas

CiM · December 21, 2002, 12:33:08 AM

QuoteI would like to but....nah i wouldnt really
I have read the books and they are very good BUT i dont over analise things so im afraid i cant join....

I hate over-analysing things, especially writing. OTOH I do find talking about it interesting... to a certain point...

Quotei personally think better than Tolkein (smite steps back and watches argument over this)

I don't really think LOTR is the best book ever written, or the best story ever told. It's definately a classic and enjoyable to read, but I wouldn't put it on an altar and worship it or anything

QuoteEEeerr rasberryketchupbannanas

Thanks for that...

- Schim

smilodon · December 21, 2002, 12:39:22 AM

QuoteTolkien often vigorously denied that WWII had anything to do with the plot of his book. He also said that he didn't particularly think one side was Good and one was Bad in WWII - IIRC (which is debatable). Of course, that doesn't mean he wasn't affected by it But he certainly wanted us to think that his book wasn't, and I understand that and believe it to be true.

While I accept that point, he did see active service in WWI, and my point was more about the cultural and emotional effect two wars had on the people who lived through them, (which, as I have lived through no world wars, I'll admit I may not be the best authority about.) IIRC he began writing the Book of Lost Tales in the trenches of the Somme. Might not the subtle subconscious effects of being swept up in the horror of WWI shape the way the beginnings of the LOTR were worked out?

smite · December 21, 2002, 12:43:54 AM

I give up there aint any stopping you 2 :evil: :evil:
ammm off ta bed ......

smilodon · December 21, 2002, 12:49:10 AM

The Guardian summed up why I'm enjoying LOTR so much by saying

"How, given little over half a century of work, did one man become the creative equivalent of a people?"

It's the creative complexity that amazes me so much. I'm not planning on learning Elvish and I don't keep referring to some great 'Encyclopedia of Tolkien' as I read, but it's wonderful to read a story based on so much well thought out history.

And I don't like to rip apart a book either, especially when I'm only half way though it, but it's and odd experience watching movies of books I'm in the middle of reading.

I'll end the word science and go watch some dumb cartoons or porn, otherwise I'm in danger of turning into an intellectual TANGO :lol: :lol:

edit...reading back I see it's too late and my worst fears have come true :wink:

CiM · December 21, 2002, 01:17:39 PM

Quote
QuoteTolkien often vigorously denied that WWII had anything to do with the plot of his book. He also said that he didn't particularly think one side was Good and one was Bad in WWII - IIRC (which is debatable). Of course, that doesn't mean he wasn't affected by it But he certainly wanted us to think that his book wasn't, and I understand that and believe it to be true.

While I accept that point, he did see active service in WWI, and my point was more about the cultural and emotional effect two wars had on the people who lived through them, (which, as I have lived through no world wars, I'll admit I may not be the best authority about.) IIRC he began writing the Book of Lost Tales in the trenches of the Somme. Might not the subtle subconscious effects of being swept up in the horror of WWI shape the way the beginnings of the LOTR were worked out?[/b]

In that it's part of the sum of his life experience which, after all, is usually what writers draw from to balance and feed their imaginations, as well as to ground their stories and create convincing characters... *remembers to inhale* ... yes

As I said, it's also possible - even likely (gasp!) - that his experiences in the World Wars affected aspects of his story to varying degrees, but he definately wanted us to discount either World War as inspiration for his story, and was adament that his story was not some kind of metaphorical statement about those wars.

And believe it or not, I'm not a LOTR/Tolkien obsessive

Honest! I've just read the books a lot, and enjoyed them, and unavoidably rather a lot of raw information has stayed with me from them...

QuoteAnd I don't like to rip apart a book either, especially when I'm only half way though it, but it's and odd experience watching movies of books I'm in the middle of reading.

I'm not sure whether I'm enjoying the movies more or less for reading the books first, but I'm certainly glad that I am so familiar with the books - so far, incredible as the movies have been, I'm still more fond of my own "interpretation" of the books than with Jackson's "interpretation" in the movies.

In fact, I think that although the movies are initially harder to accept because of my familiarity with the books, I am enjoying them more as I watch them more.

And thankfully I can still read the books without the movie's images intruding. Although some of the movie's images have actually enhanced certain bits of the books for me.

Bah. Enough warbling for me I think. :roll:

- CiM