Hostage question

Dr Sadako · March 07, 2003, 08:05:30 PM

If a CT rescues 2 of 4 hostages T should return within boundaries to guard the two remaining hostages. That is their objective.

JonnyAppleSeed · March 07, 2003, 08:17:16 PM

QuotePosted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:05 pm Post subject:

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If a CT rescues 2 of 4 hostages T should return within boundaries to guard the two remaining hostages. That is their objective.

thinking about it that sounds much better

OldBloke · March 07, 2003, 09:08:16 PM

But that's too 'black and white'.

The question [paraphrased] was 'if the hostages are being rescued can you chase them outside the boundaries?'.

The answer is 'YES'. Whether you should or not depends on a lot of things.

Dr Sadako · March 07, 2003, 10:09:38 PM

QuoteBut that's too 'black and white'.

The question [paraphrased] was 'if the hostages are being rescued can you chase them outside the boundaries?'.

The answer is 'YES'. Whether you should or not depends on a lot of things.

Well I was answering the second question "what to do if I chase down a CT but the CT manages to save 2 hostages".

The first one is as you answered.

Dingo · March 08, 2003, 11:15:50 AM

Particular problem that arose on Shogun last night was that I had rescued two hossies and then got shot at CT spawn presumably by a "chasing" T.

If in the inrerim period the other two hossies had been "collected" would you not then get a situation that the T would, in returning to the designated area, effectively be blocking the CT and no longer "chasing"?
(ie) CT would be sandwiched between "chasing" T and "returning" T)

In addition (same map) and having spawned later than the rest of the team, a T took me out at about halfway in the lower tunnel approach to the house so I guess if the T's don't know which way the hossies went we could face a scenarion where T's are fanning out to chase a CT with hossies!! :?

To be fair I personally believe that if the T's do not defend the hossies adequately then that should be their loss and they should not be permitted to leave their zone.

ChimpBoy · March 08, 2003, 11:50:48 AM

Well, I think we've proved fairly conclusively that this is an issue on some maps (please note Smiley :wink: )

Theres no clear answer is there? It really is a question of situational awareness that I cant see hard and fast rules being applied to.

To put it simply, if some hossies are rescued, then boundaries should be null and void until the situation is resolved. If they end up being rescued then any following Ts should abandon chase ASAP and return to primary job of protecting remaining Ts, not chasing down the escaping CT as revenge.

If they are prevented from being extracted then Ts are allowed to establish defensive positions using common sense avenues to said defensive position (you cant have a hard rule on this due to countless situational variables). Voice comms should be essential here.

No T scalping missions should be tolerated (how to enforce I dont know - a question for admins I suspect).

You will get complaints no doubt from CTs walking into "safe" areas that happen to contain Ts in said defensive positions, but then the CT should be aware of whats happened if teamwork has been at the fore.

It really is something thats hard to plan - if everyone plays in the spirit of PCS I see no problems.

The only other way is to follow Dingos advice and say that boundaries are in place until the last hossie is on the move. It's the only way to be sure.

OldBloke · March 08, 2003, 12:04:11 PM

I think people get too hung-up on the boundary issues.

PCS really is a simple concept based upon two principles:

1. Work as a team.
2. Complete the objective.

When you've been playing PCS long enough then, even when you play a new map, the boundaries need defining less and less.

In all honesty their only use is to help reinforce the change in ethos that new players to PCS will have to adapt to. For example, a new PCS player will argue that by rushing into the T/CT spawn and killing everyone there then this will prevent the bomb being planted/hostages from being rescued. He's right but where's the teamwork? He's more likely to be killed so leaving his team to defend with a man down. The boundary rule stops this. But after time you know what's expected of you and the boundaries become less of an issue and the teamwork/objective takes focus.

So getting back to these stooooopid hossies (who, BTW, don't even deserve to be rescued when they can't be bothered to climb ladders, shout out 'He's behind the crate' or even run to safety etc.).

My advice when playing as T on hostage maps (when hostages have been moved) is to guard the hostages in the best possible way so as to win the round. DUH! This will mean using team communications to decide whether it's best to concentrate on the unmoved hostages or chase down the moving ones or even do both.

Whatever you decide to do should be done in PCS style without the worry of whether you overstepped the map boundary.

Dr Sadako · March 08, 2003, 12:07:38 PM

QuoteYou will get complaints no doubt from CTs walking into "safe" areas that happen to contain Ts in said defensive positions, but then the CT should be aware of whats happened if teamwork has been at the fore.

I think that the CTs should be extra carful when hostages have been taken or rescued. They know that the Ts are allowed to chase them down so it should not be a surprise that Ts could be encountered 'mid way'.

Also Ts might not know that only 2 of 4 hostage have been taken e.g. it could be a single T left and he only hears that the hostages are touched.

But if T knows that there are 2 hostage left then they should focus on guarding them. This is why voicecomm is important. If you don't have a mic buy one!

JB · March 08, 2003, 12:51:27 PM

/me shakes hand at Oldie

Damn you voice of reason !

Dingo · March 08, 2003, 01:04:08 PM

QuoteIn addition (same map) and having spawned later than the rest of the team, a T took me out at about halfway in the lower tunnel approach to the house so I guess if the T's don't know which way the hossies went we could face a scenarion where T's are fanning out to chase a CT with hossies!! :?

Which was the real point I was making (not eloquently enough obviously due to some of the replies!!

)

How does one exert jurisdiction on which way a T can chase down a CT?....does he have to be following the CT or can a T use any route to cut off a potential hossie rescue including getting to CT spawn first to ambush the CT.....Isn't that what happens on a public server? :? 8O

I was really asking if, T's are allowed to chase down CT's, then should there be a cut off point?

I'll just shut up now and go and hide in a corner......safer that way!! :oops: :oops:

smilodon · March 08, 2003, 02:04:16 PM

Oldie puts it most eloquently and in a way confrims my rather tongue in cheek response, that there is no real issue here.

Once a CT picks up a hossie the whole dynamic of the round changes. From being defenders the T's are now hunters. As long as everyone knows the effect that grabbing a hossie has, then there's no problem.

Again as Oldie says regarding boundaries, we shouldn't be saying "Am I allowed past here?".
We should be saying "Why on earth should I want to go past here."
Players shouldn't really cross boundaries and there should be no real reason why they would want to. Boundaries just keeps it neat and arguement/interpretaion free.

T's will chase down CT's with hossies. T's will then try to get back to defend any remaining hossies as soon as the first ones are rescued. And they will kill any CT they meet on their way back if they can. Assuming they know exactly where he is T's might even hide from the returning CT and ambush him on the way back.

Sorry Dingo but if you had just delivered Hossies to therescue point and were heading back it would be wise to assume T's could be anywhere on the map and act accordingly.

I'm no PCS veteran here, but I still humbly maintain that as soon as the first hossie gets touched all bets are off (as it would be in real life) and that there isn't a problem here.

Anonymous · March 08, 2003, 02:16:51 PM

So to precis the discussion:

If we see Dingo we shoot him!

There, I think I've got it?

Dingo · March 08, 2003, 06:03:19 PM

Quote If we see Dingo we shoot him!

....I think at this point that is a given

me bows out :?

smilodon · March 09, 2003, 03:06:18 AM

Quote
Quote If we see Dingo we shoot him!

....I think at this point that is a given

me bows out :?[/b]

Get those pods botting Dingo and you'll be I3373r than a I337 thing.

On the subject of being dead a lot it might be an idea to open a new forum on this bulletin board.

Dingos Spot - A forum for posting hints, tips and ideas about how to play CS better. Share those secrets, those cool moves and those special spots on the map that guarantee a kill.

I know there's a hidden tactics section for dMw members and it would be daft to publish any of that on an open forum, but Dingo needs your help - in fact a fair few of us need your help too :!:

Also it's very quiet tonight. I quite look forward to my end of evening forum read as a wind down, but there wasn't much posted tonight. You all out having fun?

Nite