Promote from within........

noevra · September 12, 2006, 08:05:51 PM

dont get me rong. but i have real live friends in rg1 (dajo and opticalrush) so i will always be applying for rg1 if a spots is open, not because i dont have a good time in rg2 (good raiding foks and fun whenn its allowed) but a game is to play with friend and if they are real live friends you will always want to play with them. If dajo and opticalrush would be in rg2 i probely wanted to be in rg2 if i were in rg1.

nothing to do with rg2. and if rg1 ever makes a rule that gr2 members arn't allawed to go to rg1 i can live with that. but probely still be trying to get in rg1.

Zabard · September 13, 2006, 08:29:09 AM

Quote from: TeaLeaf;149624Patience young padawn. You assume MC is raided every week. If this does not hold true then your assertion fails too. However, ignoring whether or not MC is raided every week, take a look at this bit:

Originally Posted by Zabard
This means that we have to get down Razorgore on the first or second go to even get to try more than a couple of times on boss 2 before the raid is called.

I know you probably didn't mean exactly that but:

Yes, that's more or less exactly what I mean. :happy: I know we have only recently started in BWL, but unfortunately, RG2 has the habit of taking a looong time getting ready after a wipe. I think someone else wrote a note about this somewhere. We basicly spent 2 hours just sitting around. We killed Razor on 5th go, and then had 2 goes at Vael. I think we only got three tries on Vael in one night, and that night I couldn't attend. I know we'll get better at downing Razorgore in time, but after raiding with RG2 for some months now, I'm not so sure that the long downtimes between fights will improve. All statistics have so far proven that it wont. I know I'm not the only one annoyed by this. I know you (TL) are annoyed by it too (ref.: the AQ run the other day when people just went afk before boss fights).

Perhaps the RL should start doing the same as TL, and kick people that just up and leave the keyboard before boss fights or go AFK without giving notice.

Quote from: TeaLeaf;149624Do you only think your raid lasts for 90 minutes? Are you serious in saying that 4 pulls is a night's raiding?

No that's not what I call a raid, so I guess you would be a bit frustrated when that is an evening of raiding.

Quote from: TeaLeaf;149624Jayzus, I've done nights with RG1 where we had to do Razegore twice and then Vael FOUR times and *then* we went on and cleared the the rest of BWL including Nefarian! Four times is *nothing*!

It seems either I didn't write what I meant well enough, or you didn't quite understand me. I have nothing against wiping a whole night if that's what it takes, but when it takes 20 minutes just standing around waiting for people that are basicly being slow, anyone can get annoyed. This also holds us back from progressing further.

Quote from: TeaLeaf;149624To a certain extent, I really believe that RG2 are still learning the principles needed to succeed in BWL and later instances.

That's why we are there. :smile:

TeaLeaf · September 13, 2006, 08:31:08 AM

Ah ok, glad we cleared that up!

TL.

Siffredi · September 13, 2006, 08:35:48 AM

The problem last BWL run was that we tried a couple of tries on Razorgore, and we got to the decision that we needed more protect spec tanks to do the job - Therefore we sent off 2xwarriors to respec and after that we got our kill... These ppl will now stick to thier spec, and we should have to wipe so much on Razorgore anymore = more time on Vael. It took some time to go back to IF and respec since i had to help both of them to set up spec, so thats why you sat around waiting so long, cause usually if you see it we get ALOT of tries on them fast, because we dont like waiting more than you do Jemeny...

Hopes this clarify why we had some waiting time last time

Zabard · September 13, 2006, 09:27:55 AM

Yes, I know, but that was only one of the times we had to wait. Oh well, water under the bridge.

Devout · September 13, 2006, 11:25:53 AM

Just an idea, in future raids it can be wise to focus on Information.

Last raid I was in group 5, we where standing inside, good and buffed up talking about weather and stuff like that :biggrin: and after a looong period (when the warr did the prot respeck) we asked eachother why we where waiting so long. None had any idea.

next time just print that "due to the last attempts we wanne respeck our warr for the benefit of todays raid. It may take 5-10 min". as simple as that.

Btw: rg2 raid leaders are doing a greast job, dont misunderstand that :-)

Vargen · September 13, 2006, 12:30:52 PM

Well people AFK during raids is a big problem in BWL, and even more so in later instances. You should really not allow people to go afk unless it is absolutly nessesary, and rather set up bio breaks with regular intervalls.
In RG1 if someone goes afk between Razor and Vael, they are replaced. We really just keep up the pace and keep on clearing trash even while loot is being done. Our first break is just before the big clear up to Broodlord and then a second one just before Chromaggus.
Sure, if you wipe that ammount of breaks isn't good enough, but then let the RL allow for a 2 min bio then. If you wipe 5 times and different people go afk between each one, you will take twice as long between tries and probably have half the raid with no focus.

As for RG1 and RG2, I really would call them Guardians and Defenders, because they are equal and we share the same recources. Many think we demad too little from the Guardians, but we are still progressing as fast as the guilds with 1 and 2 more raid days. Defenders and their 2 raid days have done an awesome effort and progress. I think the Defender raid group will make even more progress once they get Razor on farm, and might even be able to take him down straght after Ragnaros. That should clear up some time on your next raid. Both raidgroups have and have had problems with low focus and ppl afk, but the Guardians have less problems with it because of the announced breaks.
Go easy on your Marshals guys, the first few bosses in BWL are the most frustrating to lead.

DonnieKingo · September 13, 2006, 02:19:26 PM

Sounds like a good idea - at the beginng of the raid it could be announced when the breaks would be - and upon wipe - it could be said that next attempt would be in, for instance, 5 minutes. If you are not there - you are replaced. That might motivate people to get their butts back to BWL to be ready to buff and kill.

Could be worth a try...

TeaLeaf · September 13, 2006, 02:22:17 PM

Not to be nasty but: I've found that kicking someone from the raid usually gets very rapid attention from that player and the message also settles well into the minds of the other 38 raiders too. It only took 1.5 ZG raids for people to learn not to go AFK on me in ZG :laugh:

TL.

Umbra · September 13, 2006, 02:32:13 PM

Indeed, like last nights raid.

[Teaelle]RaidWarning: are you there? x 3
...
[Teaelle] On TS : I'm gonna kick you now, bye

or similar, people take it for granted that people will wait for them, so if you make it clear you won't AND set decent time and durations for breaks, then there's no excuse, carrot and stick scenario

Zabard · September 13, 2006, 02:38:44 PM

Yea, the kick approach is very effective. :clap:

Sebas · September 13, 2006, 03:13:35 PM

Quote from: TeaLeaf;149967Not to be nasty but: I've found that kicking someone from the raid usually gets very rapid attention from that player and the message also settles well into the minds of the other 38 raiders too. It only took 1.5 ZG raids for people to learn not to go AFK on me in ZG :laugh:

TL.

Yeah it sure was a very effective way, it got the mage's attention right away :tongue: I say try this method, that 2/3 people hold off the rest of the raid to get along with another try is ridiculous :angry:

Just off-topic:
How about trying to get Razorgore down after MC instead of Onyxia? That way we'll save LOTS of time and we sure to get atleast another kill in BWL :happy: Maybe not this coming thursday as we havent really mastered Razorgore yet, but if we have, I say lets get the ******* down after Raggy :thumb:

Umbra · September 14, 2006, 01:41:34 PM

2/3? I assume you mean 2-3 rather than two thirds :O, take my suggestion under advisement, get all RG2 fitted with remote control cattleprod pants, RL gets the remote, fry someone's nuts if they don't respond in 3 seconds OR use it as a ready check

Sebas · September 14, 2006, 03:17:25 PM

Quote from: Umbra;1502192/3? I assume you mean 2-3 rather than two thirds :O, take my suggestion under advisement, get all RG2 fitted with remote control cattleprod pants, RL gets the remote, fry someone's nuts if they don't respond in 3 seconds OR use it as a ready check

Sure aslong as I can have the remote :devil: