Promote from within........

TeaLeaf · September 11, 2006, 09:37:59 AM

I thought I would split this out from a comment made in an application thread and make my own comments on it here. It was a comment about moving someone from RG2 to RG1 and it being seen as a 'promotion'.

Quotepromote from within...

A move from RG2 to RG1 is not a promotion, it's just a bigger repair bill and the mandatory right to spend more time wiping. Try the 2.5 hours we spent wiping on Huhuran last night and Optical's 32G repair bill.

But seriously folks, everyone should stop looking at RG2 & RG1 as the 'good' and 'better' raid groups:

SoG run TWO raid groups and they are BOTH damn fine raiding teams - both are Premiere League.

And remember this - a move to RG1 will demote you in the DKP list by about 3,000 DKP points. So if you want to ever get your hands on that special item it will have to drop to everyone else first, so you'll be seeing it in about Autumn 2009. :norty: OTOH DKP will accrue more quickly in RG2 and loot drops will be accelerated in RG2 as more bosses are killed faster.

Work for *your* raid group and towards its progression in whichever instance you are raiding. RG1 will for the time being spend much more time wiping than RG2 whilst RG1 is ahead in the instance boss list and learning new tactics and fights, but RG2 will continue to make far more rapid progress than RG1 (due to the tactics being already honed) and will eventually catch RG1 and work together with RG1 on the same new boss.

RG1 & RG2 will then be raiding the same thing to the same standard, so don't think of one as better than the other. Yes RG1 is doing more difficult instances, but to reach the Bosses that RG2 has already done in so very little time proves that RG2 is a force to be reckoned with, not 'also rans'.

TL.

Yrthal · September 11, 2006, 12:14:13 PM

:worshippy: AMEN m8. amen!

Nefrion · September 11, 2006, 12:21:33 PM

Well said!! I second that :smile:

DonnieKingo · September 11, 2006, 12:29:06 PM

Very nice post - that should set things straight :clap:

Claw · September 11, 2006, 12:52:29 PM

Amen :clap::clap::clap::clap:

//claw

Sandrion · September 11, 2006, 01:47:10 PM

I agree that RG2 is definately not a 'fishing pond' for RG1 to get new members from. If RG1 would be constantly 'stealing' RG2's best members it would hurt their progression considerably. I also understand the wish to have two equal raid groups. However I strongly oppose the fact that you are 'restricting' people from being transferred between the two raid groups.

As I have already stated in the past, being transferred to RG1 is an upgrade in the sense that RG1 has more raid days. Yes the extension of the amount of raid days of RG2 is currently under discussion; but in all honesty, I highly doubt that's it's going to happen.

I also do not understand what you intent with the DKP penalty you are imposing on future transferees. You make it sound like every person that wants to be transferred from RG2 to RG1 is only doing it for the loot?! They're most probably at the back of the line anyway. Additionally, pushing people back even further in line will indirecty harm the raid group's progression as well. DKP is there to distribute loot, it is not an officiers playtool to punish people.

If people either want to be more dedicated raiders or will be unable to attend on certain RG2 raiding days in the future; what reason do they have left to talk to an officier about it after reading this comment? You risk losing the more aspiring people from RG2, since they might as well look for another guild if a transfer to RG1 is not a valid option. If memory serves me right you already have lost members because of this; more will follow.

I for one have no aspirations to join RG1, so this does not effect me personally. I just wanted to share my thoughts with the officiers, because I'm convinced that this 'rule' will do more damage then good.

Dajo · September 11, 2006, 02:00:44 PM

Sandrion, you won't get a 3000 dkp penalty litterally, you keep the same DKP, but we in RG1 have about 3k more so it's the same

Ubar · September 11, 2006, 02:02:17 PM

good thing TL :biggrin:

TeaLeaf · September 11, 2006, 02:05:34 PM

It's not so much that RG2 is a fishing pond for RG1 to steal members, its that many RG2 think they are in an inferior raid group, which it is not.

And Dajo is correct, there was no rule change announcement about DKP in what I wrote.

TL.

Devout · September 11, 2006, 02:06:02 PM

Just my thougt on it..

Like I see it, we may loose peeps anyway.

1. Those who wanna raid more but cause of the rules cannot be "uppgraded" to rg1. There may be some who will leave to raid more. As said above, some already have.

2. If the guild start recruiting from within, then you may see peeps leave cause of the lack of progress in rg2. There will be slower progress in rg2 if rg1 starts gettin the best equipped players there.

Im glad Im not the one taking the final decision here :-)

To point one thing at the end, the grass isnt always better at the other side of tha fence. That are shown again and again when peeps apply here shortly after leaving the guild. Wonder why:narnar:

btw who said it wasnt fun wiping...:-)

Sandrion · September 11, 2006, 02:09:22 PM

Quote from: Dajo;149392Sandrion, you won't get a 3000 dkp penalty litterally, you keep the same DKP, but we in RG1 have about 3k more so it's the same

Hmm, thanks for pointing that out. I misinterpreted that :tongue: .

So you can scratch the DKP comment I made. It also makes my initial post sound a bit too harsh when I look back at it now.

Zabard · September 11, 2006, 03:19:25 PM

Quote from: Sandrion;149388However I strongly oppose the fact that you are 'restricting' people from being transferred between the two raid groups.

As I have already stated in the past, being transferred to RG1 is an upgrade in the sense that RG1 has more raid days. Yes the extension of the amount of raid days of RG2 is currently under discussion; but in all honesty, I highly doubt that's it's going to happen.

If people either want to be more dedicated raiders or will be unable to attend on certain RG2 raiding days in the future; what reason do they have left to talk to an officier about it after reading this comment? You risk losing the more aspiring people from RG2, since they might as well look for another guild if a transfer to RG1 is not a valid option. If memory serves me right you already have lost members because of this; more will follow.

I've stated before my interest to moving to RG1 due to the fact that I would like to raid more often. I read the message with a heavy heart that moving to RG1 was no longer possible for RG2 members. Like probably some others, I considered looking for another guild because of this statement, but found that I enjoy SoG too much for such a simple solution. Instead, I've dedicated more time to my alts and have been raiding in ZG and AQ both with Jemeny, Minetha and Zabard. I've been looking forward to the day when we maybe can add an extra day with RG2, and this issue is now up for discussion. If it will come to pass is another matter tho.

And with the added possibility to sometimes raid with alts in MC, my mage is cheering with joy, and my rogue is crying (cause she'll be paying the DKP for it). This will, imo., add a variation that will keep the game fun a lot longer. :biggrin:

Adularena · September 11, 2006, 03:51:57 PM

1) If Rg1 and RG2 are to be equal, make a poll amongst RG2 as to implement another raid day for them?
I think the difference in amount of raiding makes the raid groups very different.

2) If a RG2 player moves to RG1, he might have less DKP, but he would probably get items that are very good according his standard, since most RG1 ppl now start aiming for gear higher than BWL thus passing on tier 2 and def. tier 1?

TeaLeaf · September 11, 2006, 03:57:32 PM

Quote from: Adularena;1494211) If Rg1 and RG2 are to be equal, make a poll amongst RG2 as to implement another raid day for them?

Welcome to the forums Adu. You'll find the Poll was posted some time ago in the raiding section.

TL.

Sinap · September 11, 2006, 04:12:13 PM

We can "promote from within" really, take soldiers, im sure, no wait... I KNOW there are soldiers who would love to raid, I was one of them a couple of days ago but was very luckily given that chance and will keep that spot until the day I die, or quit wow

So yeah, there will probably be some people leave because they want more raids, I did the same a few weeks ago, but regretted it, but they can be replaced by soldiers or something. IMO, taking people from RG2 and moving them to RG1 is not the way to go, at all. Its basically like saying... hmm... we'll take the MT of RG2 who knows what he's doing on every fight, keeps the fight together etc, out of RG2 and putting them into RG1. Totally destroys there progress. People in RG2 have raided with RG2 members for a while now and they know each other well and how each other works, it should stay like that.