Squad system review

OldBloke · January 31, 2003, 05:08:58 PM

Gents,

Please try to put some time aside this weekend to review the comments made in this topic:

http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t...?t=1059&start=0

I would like the admins to formulate proposals that we can put to the vote with regards to the match-playing future of the clan.

TeaLeaf · February 01, 2003, 02:38:13 PM

I've tried to summarise the comments made in that thread into a single web page to make it easier to scan through and come to conclusions. I have had it use a bit of editorial licence, but hey, someone has to! So apologies in advance if I have misquoted or incorrectly paraphrased something one of you peeps said, or put it in the wrong column!

If it helps anyone, it's here

TL.

OldBloke · February 01, 2003, 03:52:11 PM

GJ TL

I'm just resting my eyes now from the glare of red on black 8O

Before we decide how to progress this issue can I remind everyone that we have the new Jolt Ladder to add (or not) to the deliberations.

smite · February 01, 2003, 04:18:34 PM

The first thing i beleive we need to sort is the team sizes.
My point being:-
We may have 24 members but at least half that amount dont actually play anymore or very rarely.
Squirrel, Tutonic, Mr eggs, FBG
just to name a few off my head Oh and doggers and Stryker (wether this may change for them when this situation has been resolved)

We also have to accept that people may want to have a break from playing or just cannot play regularly and some people just want to play on MH and not play in matches -- (i personally dont mind this because if you say to people "OK if you dont play in matches you cant be in dMw" then people dont feel part of the community and may not want to stay here On a personal note the community is why i come to MH and dMw)

Problem = "Zombies" was built up with the main regulars the people who play every night and can field a full team.
We took all the mainstream regulars and left the others behind leaving people as stated above who just cannot play certain nights or are working late or any other situation.

My proposal is to:-
Keep two teams wether it be zombies, Ghosts, Ghouls or Nazgul as this part did seem to work well (3 would be too many - we cant feild 2 never mind 3)

Split the skill the main regulars evenly and fill up from there.
Regulars are:-
Oldbloke, Tealeaf, Sadako, JAS, Albert, Smite,
Play two leagues only wether it be Jolt, ED or Clanbase (only play 2 official matches a week)
If people cant make a match then at least we have bigger squads to choose from and if one squad cannot field enough then one can be chosen from the other squad.
Hopefully Oldies new Availability page will make life easier for Squad Leaders to decide on who has played recently and who hasnt.

This is only my idea but it is keeping the structure there that works but taking away the animosity that eliteism has been brought in.
If any of this does not make sense i appologise as i am nackered.

smite · February 01, 2003, 04:38:02 PM

Another addition Squad leaders:-
Oldie is a very good leader But Tealeaf is wasted as just a Deputy if we were to have 2 squads it would need to have a strong leader on each team.
The differece a strong leader makes is incredible as i have noticed when either Oldie or Tealeaf leave a game.
In my oppinion there is nobody else in dMw like them and to have two in one team would be a waste.

TeaLeaf · February 01, 2003, 05:39:44 PM

QuoteAnother addition Squad leaders:-
Oldie is a very good leader But Tealeaf is wasted as just a Deputy if we were to have 2 squads it would need to have a strong leader on each team.
The differece a strong leader makes is incredible as i have noticed when either Oldie or Tealeaf leave a game.
In my oppinion there is nobody else in dMw like them and to have two in one team would be a waste.

Is now a bad time to mention that I like playing with Oldie? 8O Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't mention that. :oops:
But I like being a deputy - it means I have someone on a higher rung to blame when it all goes pear-shaped

I appreciate the sentiments Smite, and now that I have finished blushing an' all, I can say that i know what you mean. But it would be in the best interests of dMw and the MH PCS community (I like you am here for the community) to develop a number of strong leaders so that when Oldie or I are not around there is still good leadership available. PCS doesn't work without people willing to take the lead, and fortunately we have a number of people that could develop into that role with a little help, TLC and encouragement. I would have no problem stepping over to an SL role, but we need some upcoming 'leaders'.

My tongue in cheek comment at the start of this post (yeah, you're right, I shouldn't have said that either :oops: ) was slightly serious though. I would feel a little emasculated if the role of SL blocked me from playing in the same match team as Oldie - I enjoy his company on the server, like minds and all that.

Anyway, group hug is now over. "Go back about your business please folks, there's nothing to see here" said Officer Barbraidy.

TL.

smite · February 01, 2003, 05:54:42 PM

I know what you mean i like playing with certain peple more than others as when you play with them you feel a connection ie:- ypu know where they will be in a certain situation but TBH this would only be once in a week that you would not be playing with these/this people/person.
But i beleive this is where the problem lies people learn to play with certain teamates and then they dont get to play with them in matches.

Myself and JAS work well as a team but we have never played in a match together to my knowledge.

TeaLeaf · February 01, 2003, 08:59:15 PM

OK, I've had a chance to look at the summary now and I reckon that 6 issues were raised to a level that registered as significant on my significant-o-meter.

Note, this first point is mine - only 16 of 25 dMw members responded, which is in itself disappointing when such an important issue is being discussed.

i) Almost unanimous acknowledgement that a squad system helps SLs greatly.
ii) Almost unanimous acknowledgement that the 'best and 'the rest' squads may cause a divide to be felt within the clan.
iii) Following the raising of the 'availability page' there was general agreement that whilst nothing to do with the squad system, some members suffer from an inexcusable lethargy and don't bother updating it.
iv) General agreement that all squads had improved due to a higher degree of continuity in those team mates you play alongside.
v) General agreement that for Cups/Knock-out Tournaments that we should submit our best group of players.
vi) General agreement that mixed squads may be more appropriate and that maybe a 3 squad system is better, as long as it runs alongside a player rotation system, so that we have some 'refreshment' of the squads on an ongoing basis.

On Saturdays and with wine in me (which it is in abundance right now) I'm a poor excuse for a Theorist/Reflector, but fit in right well with the Activist/Pragmatist camp. So from my reading of the posts I can tell you that I have a cunning plan........ :lol:

1. Keep a squad-based & SL-based system.
2. Replace the 'Best' & 'the Rest' squads with more evenly skill-balanced squads.
3. Increase the number of squads from 2 to 3 (we have enough clan members & matches to ensure we all get enough games.
4. Monitor availability to see if it causes any problems (I don't think it will - with subs we should always have enough players).
5. Instigate a 'refresh' program that moves players from squad to squad over the months/weeks. (I am assuming that it will be fairly easy to get 3 colours shown on availability for 3 squads and not too time-consuming to move a couple of people's colours each month?). I am happy to maintain a record of the squads and the rotations (and I can email a spreadsheet to SLs as needed) - I can then just edit a post in the Squad section of the Forums say once per month to show the new squad makeup.
6. Keep a 'Best' squad recorded somewhere for Cups/Knockout Tournaments.
7. Identify 3 SLs to lead the squads, arrange wars and agree which squad will be playing them.
8. Identify (at least) 3 SLs-in-waiting for development, possibly from a 2ic role.
9. Set out and post (probably in the Admin section fo the Forum) a 'training program' for the 2ic role so that they have some sense of going forward rather than always being in the SL's shadow.

Gee, I just realised 2 things:-

- I managed to get 9 action points out of only 6 concerns 8O
- Having just presented 'the solution', I now have nothing for the peeps to vote on 8O

Dang it! Your thoughts please gentlemen.........then we can work out suitably cunning questions so that they vote on something

TL.

smite · February 02, 2003, 12:03:26 AM

I was the first person to mention 3 squads and i now regret it as i think it would be a very bad idea. Ghosts have not manned a full side yet but Zombies have split these into two even teams and rotate on a regular basis and everyone will be happy if you split 24 by 3 = 8 a squad and then remove people who dont come on regular (a guess) 8 leaves nearly 5 a side if someone doesnt or cannot turn up you have no marging for errors and then the whole squad thing is out the window as members from other squads be required to join. Also 2 even teams of 16 (excluding non regulars) two teams of 8 can field any 5 V 5 or 6 V 6 easily and then add in the non normal attendies and then the missing or not available factor is extended on.

Errm im pissed so i know this makes sense in my head so ....sorry if it dont for you.

To summarise Please dont make 3 squads very bad very bad idea ...bad smite should never had thought of it.

TeaLeaf · February 02, 2003, 08:33:37 AM

QuoteI was the first person to mention 3 squads and i now regret it as i think it would be a very bad idea. Ghosts have not manned a full side yet but Zombies have split these into two even teams and rotate on a regular basis and everyone will be happy if you split 24 by 3 = 8 a squad and then remove people who dont come on regular (a guess) 8 leaves nearly 5 a side if someone doesnt or cannot turn up you have no marging for errors and then the whole squad thing is out the window as members from other squads be required to join. Also 2 even teams of 16 (excluding non regulars) two teams of 8 can field any 5 V 5 or 6 V 6 easily and then add in the non normal attendies and then the missing or not available factor is extended on.

Errm im pissed so i know this makes sense in my head so ....sorry if it dont for you.

To summarise Please dont make 3 squads very bad very bad idea ...bad smite should never had thought of it.

The trouble is that lots of people agreed with your bad idea Smite :? :wink:

My above post was trying to summarise the comments that were made in that 4 page thread. So I welcome the feedback and comments

I think you are correct in stating that 3 x 8 man squads would have trouble fielding a team of 5 or 6 every night and would almost certainly have to use backups to make up the numbers. The problem is that 2 x squads of 12/13 would probably have exactly the same trouble as the 16 man Ghost squad has demonstrated. That's why I thought we would not have trouble fielding teams, as we would use backups in almost every match, probably. Two squads wold be simpler to handle, but you could say that 3 is a bonus as it would almost certainly add to the mixing of players as subs regularly step in :lol:

Personally I have no problem with either 2 or 3 squads. Both have their pros and cons and the above list of action points is easily amended.

There are some political issues to consider as well, such as the SLs. If we move to 2 balanced squads and remembering your above comments, who would be the SLs? Any problems?

More discussion please

TL.

smite · February 02, 2003, 10:14:27 AM

I CANNOT LEAD MY DOG AROUND THE BLOCK HE TAKES ME...
Just thought i would point that out

TeaLeaf · February 02, 2003, 12:20:13 PM

Right, so I can quote you as saying that you'll "follow your bitch anywhere" right? :wink:

Any additional thoughts on the squad system though? We need to come to some agreement about what we present to the members for them to vote on......

TL.

Gandalf · February 02, 2003, 01:36:37 PM

I've not added any comments before because I wanted to stay impartial when the decision was made to keep/abolish the system.

My thoughts are now revealed for all to see.

The current system is good for high end ladder matches, as in we field our strongest side when we are playing for points, but when we are playing friendlies where points do not matter I feel that it would be good to take a mix of players.

This will improve some weaker players game as they may be playing against a stronger team than they are used to, but more importantly, it helps to keep our family together, which is the main reason why I play here.

As Smite pointed out, the community is what its all about.

So, so summarise...

Keep the squad system in a more generalised state, as in that the squad leaders can pick anyone from the available list who they feel will enable a win for points matches. For friendlies it should be a good mix.

I will hopefully be able to spend more time here now I've finished migrating our main server over to new hardware (today is my first day off for weeks!) so expect to see me about more

smite · February 02, 2003, 01:40:49 PM

I personally think choice one:-
2 squads
Equal split of regulars that is hard core regulars
Back fill with non regulars therefore you WILL get a full squad for each match.
New Squad leaders leave them as they are.. it is working sheepy is coming on, but i think needs a bit more assistance seeing as his PC is capput.
Your coice Two:-

And if Oldie or Gandy has any ideas make it choice 3 and 4

Sorry i realise i have not been adding smiley faces

8O :?

:lol: :twisted: :evil:

Stryker · February 03, 2003, 09:16:56 AM

I agree with the three squad method, however can we have it set in something less riggid that stone? maybe putty or mud?

IE If there is a game set for a particular squad then if its a very important game or a knockout then that squads players have first dibs for places in the game...... other wise its open to anyone with a FAIR chance of being picked.

This will still maintain an A team that we all recognise and can easily call up for special duties.....

Yep I called it a popularity contest only because when I play for keeps I'm a pretty good frag monkey, lets be honest we have around 15 good frag monkey who are above the dMw 'average' way too much for one squad.. if we were riggid and only used said large A team squad.....

errrm.. yeah, lost me point. I'm just asking for some flexibility without having to go round prooving ourselves all the time....

oh yeah. oldie, simple email reminders would make it 100 times easier for me to play match games.... with my busy schedule I allways forget to check, however because of that schedule I'm always within ear shot of a PC with loud speakers and my new mail chime :-)