20 man instances..

[kregoron]

Ive made this post after we had some people getting angry at the invites today.. (5/4-06)
Its starting too tire me that everytime we do something some people gets pissed as i doesnt fit them all the time.. for instance tonight people got very pissed at us for using the invite system we did.. well we made the system to even out the chance at people getting in the raids, as some people apparently had macros ready for wiping the normal inviter.. so we thought up a system, the 4 inviters invite a few classes each.. different calsses each time so people would be able to predict who did what.. But still people get pissed when they dont get a spot.. Well listen! We had 30 people online who wanted to join ZG and we only have 20 spots.. we are doing our best to fulfill everyones wishes.. but its impossible.. but people tend go ballistic over it and its us that has to listen to it.. but lately people has gotten a bit hard in their tone.. We are doing a lot of work on the 20 man instances. Luna, Dajo, Optic, Mene and me are spending a lot of time on the lootsystems, bank chars, lootlist and that kind of stuff... and lately a lot of complaints from people..
But people please keep im mind that we are doing this out of our free will and spend our time doing this.. All this angry attitude towards us, ruins the game a bit, i didnt have much fun tonight after all the people getting pissed..
Please keep this in mind people and lets keep the tone a bit more friendly..

This thread is not made to start a argument people! its made to open peoples eyes a bit.. So if this thread turns into a flame thread, then the officers should feel free to delete it..

ps. Now i know how officers must have it! /me Bow before your might officers!

[lunares]

I can only say i fully agree on kreg his post.

We can try to use another system. For example: We let people reserve a spot on the forums and if they dont get in the raid at that time they get in the next time with priority. However that is a lot of work for us and i do not think we want to do it (at least i wont) these raids costs me a lot of free time allready (and i love them) but also doing that will be a bit too much i think.
If you have any better ideas plz tell us. But make it a system (or whatever you want to call it) which is easy to maintain and implement.

I give the officers a big  :thumbsup2: cause i think they even have more  :ranting:  then us to put it bluntly (we only have 20 they have 40).

Lunares

[Deadlyspirit]

Yeah it is alot of work for the officers and yes they shoud have a /cheer over it.

But I know how mad I can get my self and yes I got abit mad today. But dont tell it to them, hold it for your self or some near friends just to come off with it. Dont let it end at the officers.

They are doing all they can.

The only thing I can see you maybe coud see on is, a system to sign up on like 3 days before the raid. and the day before the raid you take out the grp you need so ppl know and dont stand in front of ZG like 1 hour before it starts to get a first place in the raid and go mad becouse they dont get.

I know that will be a little more work for the officers, but then again not the big time taker in my eyes. You coud make it like a calendar. but ofc somebody has to make the raids on it and chose the team. And ofc be abit fair, like you say kreg. So it not just the same persons that come all the time.

This is just my oppinion, so take it as you want.

( Sry for the bad spelling, but had to let it out. )

/// Deadlyspirit

[Marduk]

Yes i was pretty pissed at this, specialy becos of nobody beeing "kind enough" to actualy say how it would go i was not able to play since sunday due to health issues and homework so i was really happy i could play wow again for a night and left to ZG at 18:30 game time so i could be on time for sure if they would say watch out not a set inviter this will change ok i would have understand.. but to change it without any warning is just plane stupid, how often have we "joked" with /tell dajo for MC invite in guild and even IF lfg channel..
im pretty sure i wasnt the only one that was not buying this joke as we thought it was

even then now we know this system it is just as leaky as the other
how easy is it to just set up 4 macros  1 for dajo 1 for luna 1 for kregron 1 for optical
or how easy is it to put something under Copy paste, click the name  ctrl V and hit enter .. can do this way faster then anyone can type
or how about those who type a lot those already have an "unfair advangete"

so id suggest binning this system and just using the system we used in MC for a while with different keywords, totaly random words per class
say Druids whisper me banana for ZG invite, no way anyone can cheat that with macros or copy paste, only those who pay attention and type fast will be able to reply fast enough

And as a PS:
this is not to talk down on all you people who put A LOT of efford in to ZG and AQ i really appreciate this and keep up the good work, but try not to mess around with invites to much to avoid this kind un needed arguements

[noevra]

yust make 2 raids? i know you sayed that there were 30 members online. but there are a lot ingame friends that sure would like to kickass in a raid with sog to zg.

i alsow know luna tryed this yesterday. and didnt work.
but why not try it. and start it up in the forum so people know that were doing zg (since its not a official raid)

[lunares]

About the system the officers use in MC/BWL etc.
As far as i know you cant limit the class invites to 3 or so with that system. (if i am wrong plz tell me). So for example we would have 5 mages who get an invite then, so we would need to kick 2 for raid balance. That will give the same trouble of people getting mad getting an invite and kicked cause there were allready invited.
That system where you can reserve a spot for ZG/AQ is what we are thinking about, but we think that will be a lot of work and not a little. First you must make a post for it (ok not too much work yet). Then you need to check all the posts before a raid and make invites according to it. The next step is getting the people who reserved a spot in the next raid to the same place. Personally i think its a lot of work.

Lunares

[Menedil]

nah, theres several options luna (with regards to signups)

i could hack togehter a php script to do it,

theres an already existing script called RaidNinja (i'd just need to host it somewhere) http://www.lemonrage.com/raidninja/

there are forum addons made speciifcally for raid signups (certainly for phpBB, not sure about IPB, but im not sure if the board admins, TL i guess, would instal that just for us)

My favourite option would be RaidNinja

[TeaLeaf]

Originally posted by lunares@Apr 6 2006, 09:00 AM
Personally i think its a lot of work.

Lunares

[post=121209]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

/signed

There will never be a perfect system until everyone can guarantee 100% of the time that they will be there 100% of the time for 100% of the raid with 100% uninterrupted by RL emergencies playing time.  If that ever happens then we will structure the Guild to have multiples of 40 members only, that we we will always have full raids for all wherever we are raiding.  Until that happens, we'll all have to remain human and working within the contraints of an imperfect system for imperfect people.

TL.

[kregoron]

In my old guild we used the signup system and that is any good either.. cause.. lets say 20 people signs up, then at 19:15 when invites is about to go out only 18 of those is on..  So we wait a few mins.. but after a while we invite two other and then the two that signed up comes online, we have the trouble again..
My own oppinion is that those two should just be "left" behind but we will still get trouble..

But its really not a problem with we can solve, when we can fit 28 man into a 20 man instance the problems will be solved..

[Menedil]

If someone signs up, theyre making a commitment to be on time for the raid, in return theyre guaranteed a spot in the raid.

If they dont make their commitment, their guarantee is gone.

[Knabbel]

As what Noevra said....try to invite the persons who have an application on the forum. This way you can see them in action as well.....

Thumbs up for all spending there free time into WoW - SoG.

Greets,

Daedalus

[Bob]

Originally posted by Menedil@Apr 6 2006, 10:38 AM
If someone signs up, theyre making a commitment to be on time for the raid, in return theyre guaranteed a spot in the raid.

If they dont make their commitment, their guarantee is gone.

[post=121228]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

Why would a "sing up" at the forum be more fair than the way the invites are done now?

If you make a system where people have to sign up at some thread, I assume the thread will be posted some time before the raid, and than those who have access to the internett during the whole day (both at work/school or where ever they might be) will have a big advantage over those who only have internet access at home.

I'm not saying this because this will be a problem for me - I have internet access nearly 24/7 - but you have to try and see what problems different systems can cause.


And try to be a bit more humble when adressing those who spend quite a lot of their time organizing these raids.  You should be thankfull for what they do.  If you sometimes can't join the raid, well so be it, life is not fair.

And whatever you do, don't whine about it.  I don't say you shouldn't be honest about it, but be so in a polite way

[Menedil]

Originally posted by Threbrilith@Apr 6 2006, 11:09 AM
And try to be a bit more humble when adressing those who spend quite a lot of their time organizing these raids. You should be thankfull for what they do. If you sometimes can't join the raid, well so be it, life is not fair.

And whatever you do, don't whine about it. I don't say you shouldn't be honest about it, but be so in a polite way

[post=121231]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

uh... i AM one of those people, and I've spent a hell of a lot of time and effort organising AQ20. I dont think ive ever seen you in one of the AQ raids so i guess you wouldnt know. (sorry if you werent addressing me there)

one of the reasons people get so angry with not getting a spot in a raid is because they come online thinking theyd get into the raid, travel to the instance... then at 19:15 they dont get in because.. maybe they had to turn away for five seconds and too many people had already got in, or some other reason.

It'd be more fair on the people that DONT get into the raid. Signups would be controlled by a script (in the case of RaidNinja) for instance... signups could be allowed from one day before, or the morning before the raid, the exact time doesnt matter. The difference between the current system and a signup one would be that rather than whispering a random phrase at 19:15 on the raid day, you push a button at some other time. Doesnt mean a lot to the people that DO get in, but for those that dont, theres no disappointment or time wasted. (plus theres several benefits such as signups for a reserve spot in the raid - basically a queue, knowing what classes we have beforehand and being able to control easily which we have through constraints such as allowing a maximum of certain classes, or requireing minimum numbers of certain classes.)

It might work for us, it might not. It sure works pretty well for quite a lot of guilds though.

[Bob]

Originally posted by Menedil@Apr 6 2006, 11:48 AM
uh... i AM one of those people, and I've spent a hell of a lot of time and effort organising AQ20. I dont think ive ever seen you in one of the AQ raids so i guess you wouldnt know. (sorry if you werent addressing me there)

[post=121237]Quoted post[/post]

[/b]

I'm sorry Menedil.  I see now that it could seem like I was adressing you, but that weren't at all my intention.  It just happened so because you were the last who said something about that sign up thing, and the last part in my post had nothing to do about that quote :blush:

I just wanted to state my general oppinion on those who tend to start bitching about anything as soon as it doesn't go their way.

And yes, I also hope to be able to attend more of the AQ20 and ZG raids, but as of now my time schedule is tighe enough as it is with the 40man raids

[Umbra]

I'd hate to be an inviter for raids.

*hugs* to everyone who organises one.