On subject of 20 man instances

[Umbra]

yeah okie, less banter when ressing if leaders are talking over tactics problems etc.

the points i'm confused about are these:

you said 'I'm not blaming you', yet in the same conversation 'you always seem to be the centre/cause of every distraction/irrelevance' (contradiction 1)

we dont mind banter, hell i encourage it... WHEN we dont need to be focused on getting something done. As far as im concerned, from the second we take down the last obsidian guardian

and yet in msn conversation 'talk about pancakes etc is distracting people, NOTE: this banter took place outside the instance after a repair run. (contradiction 2)

note 1: When we were on Ossirian and had the couple of goes that were deemed sufficient, I said few things on TS, but mainly
'I'm dead' - after a spanking (keep tanks informed)
'where the hell is everyone' after a knockback and no-one was in sight
'I'm a bit far away' - after being asked to tank after yet another knockback
' Um why is everyone going over there' when people ran off after a crystal when one had spawned right at our starting position.
'Where to now, I don;t see any clicking on the map' tanking for a short while about 10 secs before supreme mode

note 2: during ressing i can see the point of discussing strategies, but i'm gonna chat and try and cheer up after a wipe if leaders aren't saying anything, the excuse of 'they would if they could get a word in' is largely pointless by the ts capability of mute or ts kick as bastet has shown numerous times.

note 3: you mentioned me talking about my new fantastic camera position (i had only just found the extended camera zoom option thing). This was just before the last obsidian guardian and about 2 mins before the first pull, long exclamation of joy, and short 'woo' respectively

You can decide very well what is causing the wipes and try to do something about it, as raid leaders that's your prerogative, but saying something doesn't make it so. Have you asked the raid members if chatting before a pull stopped them doing their job? I know the feeling when it seems like everything is great and ought to work but it all seems to go to hell, it's difficult not to think 'well it must be the chatting, cos im doing everything else right'. Well, unless people are having lengthy conversations about porn and completely ignoring what you're saying you're onto a loser.

few points:

sometimes tank begins to get hit before the first crystal is activated.
healers sometimes not in range of tank.
lack of awareness of whirlwinds.
lack of clicking on map to select next crystal.
timing issues when activating crystals.

this is just refinement and practise, like razorgore, its a complicated long fight with bits of timing to it. Maybe the chatting is a symptom of a general miasma of anathema at the time but it's not a cause. There's nothing more frustrating than passive resistance, everyone says theyre ready and know what they're doing  but maybe not entirely with it.  Think of the ebonroc fight etc, we all clicked ready, and then thought wait, ony cloak? wth! But making people feel bad won't help concentration, and lack of tact won't help confidence or respect, people will be spending more time worrying about what they're saying, worrying if it'll incur your wrath etc than paying attention to their jobs. would it not have been simple and easy to have a /w that said 'hey could u shush a little on TS in this fight please'. The response would have been 'sure, sorry m8'.

Just a side note, I was up for as many tries on him as you wanted, have plenty of cashfor repairing and I know from other technical bosses that it takes a while for everyone to knwo what theyre doing, never mind coordinating this what what others are doing. just shout if you need another tank at any point even just for ossirian, however I won't be signing up anymore as this will avoid embarassment to us both.

Good luck in there, I'll be the first to congratulate you and apologise if/when you take him down in a raid where i've not distracted everyone. I wanna see some of that funky loot being used to kick nefarian

[Neff]

Dont , dont mention boobies Greg, it makes me err "occupied" .

But i think we've gotten the point , if noone wants to discuss it further closing the topic is in its place? ( no im not a wannabe Mod )

We'll pwn ossiran, we need to

[Bob]

I don't mean to go complete off topic on a very serious matter, but I just have to ask:

Originally posted by Umbra@May 5 2006, 02:14 PM
note 3: you mentioned me talking about my new fantastic camera position (i had only just found the extended camera zoom option thing). This was just before the last obsidian guardian and about 2 mins before the first pull, long exclamation of joy, and short 'woo' respectively

[post=125183]Quoted post[/post]

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W00t? where can I do this :blink:

[Menedil]

*sigh* agian. Fine.

Originally posted by Umbra@May 5 2006, 02:14 PM
you said 'I'm not blaming you', yet in the same conversation 'you always seem to be the centre/cause of every distraction/irrelevance' (contradiction 1)
and yet in msn conversation 'talk about pancakes etc is distracting people, NOTE: this banter took place outside the instance after a repair run. (contradiction 2)

I wasnt blaming you for the wipes, if I was trying to point the blame at someone surely I would have done it in public, not in a private whisper conversation.  HOWEVER there are a select few people who are consistantly at the center of any distraction; a distraction that certainly isnt helpful to us.

Time is not a luxury that we have with ossirian, at best it takes us 2 and a half hours or so to the first Guardian pull alone, 22:00 is a optimistic time to arrive at ossirian, leaving not a lot of time to do other bosses such as Buru and Moam that we really should do so we dont just spend an evening wipeing. If people are stood outside the instance oogling at polygon boobies then theyre wasting time.

Let me guess your reply "but I wasnt the last one there!", sure, but just because other people are being slow it doesnt mean you should be also.
 

note 1: When we were on Ossirian and had the couple of goes that were deemed sufficient, I said few things on TS, but mainly
'I'm dead' - after a spanking (keep tanks informed)
'where the hell is everyone' after a knockback and no-one was in sight
'I'm a bit far away' - after being asked to tank after yet another knockback
' Um why is everyone going over there' when people ran off after a crystal when one had spawned right at our starting position.
'Where to now, I don;t see any clicking on the map' tanking for a short while about 10 secs before supreme mode

note 2: during ressing i can see the point of discussing strategies, but i'm gonna chat and try and cheer up after a wipe if leaders aren't saying anything, the excuse of 'they would if they could get a word in' is largely pointless by the ts capability of mute or ts kick as bastet has shown numerous times.

Inflaming the situation by kicking/muting someone who clearly thinks they can do no wrong wont help.

few points:

sometimes tank begins to get hit before the first crystal is activated.
healers sometimes not in range of tank.
lack of awareness of whirlwinds.
lack of clicking on map to select next crystal.
timing issues when activating crystals.

this is just refinement and practise, like razorgore, its a complicated long fight with bits of timing to it.

Exactly, and when people seem to be more concerned with discussing anything BUT what we should be doing (when its often quite obvious that people are still unsure) it starts to become irritating.

What we want is for people to give us ideas to try, we havent done it either, for all we know the tactics we're trying could be complete tripe and there could be better ideas in your head.

Mene

[Umbra]

I'd rather you said 'shush, and get back here ,we want as many tries as possible'

Also, people don't want to JUST talk about boss stuff, it has to be interpersed with some light heartedness, imho anyway.

actually, I will get the msn conversation later, you said 'you are always at the centre' as well as others. and anyway, attributing cause to certain people even if couched in such an unassuming phrases as

HOWEVER there are a select few people who are consistantly at the center of any distraction; a distraction that certainly isnt helpful to us.

IS blame, it may be attempting to be indirect but it's quite clear, additionally in the msn conversation you use the word 'cause' as well as 'centre of', distractions.

wipe from lack of focus
lack of focus from distractions
distraction attributed to 'select few'

no matter what you SAY after the fact about not blaming, that is exactly what the words and most likely the feelings imply (note imply and NOT infer).

Sorry about the boobies, i'll keep that to myself from now on. If the 3 mins that detracted from the raid time was what caused us to only have 2 tries on ossirian then that really is my bad.

Oh and btw in case you don't recall, your initial tirade was within the skeg channel, not a /w.

Maybe you really don't mean to cast blame at all, but the words and manner in which you spoke, and continue to do so, strongly suggested that you did and still do, excuse me if phrases like 'at least you don't have the ability to turn a raid into a complete shambles like xxx' doesn't exactly fill me happiness, this comes out as 'you're crap, but xxx is crapper still' if it was meant to cheer up someone you'd just made feel like shit then 0/10 marks. Additionally, if you can say such things behind other people's backs, then wth are you saying about me and the 'select few' to other brown shirts?

Threb, in interface options, advanced tab, there's a slider with caption'max zoom level' or similar. mine was on minimum so you can guess I was overjoyed at suddenly being able to see more than feet.

[Padding]

Sorry to barge in on the post like that, but lets try to get back to the teamwork we are used to and what gives us the reputation on Aszune that we are

THE NICEST GUILD ON THE SERVER[/SIZE]

and if you want to blame someone:

BLAME CANADA[/SIZE]

[Sinap]

Originally posted by Padding@May 5 2006, 05:53 PM
BLAME CANADA[/SIZE]

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Racist..  

[Ragnarh]

the thing that I don't like on the fight with the big blue dude ,is that evryone is mounted,  and when I go in to grab him some stil are mounted and I die.
Why do the whole raid need to be mounted at start? Evry try I have had at him (5),
there has been a crystal real close to where I stand  when the pull is done.

IMO the only one who should be mounted should be the puller who should be the tank. So that he rides to the firs crystal and dismounts the healers are allready there and ready to heal him.

[lunares]

Originally posted by Ragnarh@May 5 2006, 10:34 PM
the thing that I don't like on the fight with the big blue dude ,is that evryone is mounted, and when I go in to grab him some stil are mounted and I die.
Why do the whole raid need to be mounted at start? Evry try I have had at him (5),
there has been a crystal real close to where I stand when the pull is done.

IMO the only one who should be mounted should be the puller who should be the tank. So that he rides to the firs crystal and dismounts the healers are allready there and ready to heal him.

[post=125260]Quoted post[/post]

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The problem is the crystals spawn at random location. For example last time we had no crystals close the middle then its good to be mounted. The problem here is the randomness. And we rather see ppl mounted for the pull though i agree we need to change it a bit which we are discussing atm (pally pull ftw).

Lunares

[Gorion]

Originally posted by Ragnarh@May 5 2006, 10:34 PM
the thing that I don't like on the fight with the big blue dude ,is that evryone is mounted, and when I go in to grab him some stil are mounted and I die.
Why do the whole raid need to be mounted at start? Evry try I have had at him (5),
there has been a crystal real close to where I stand when the pull is done.

IMO the only one who should be mounted should be the puller who should be the tank. So that he rides to the firs crystal and dismounts the healers are allready there and ready to heal him.

[post=125260]Quoted post[/post]

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with our non-epic mounts were dead the second we pull.. remember... he is very fast in supreme mode