MC & OL and Alts

[Bastet]

Okee, so i been thinking about some ways to make MC more intresting for RG1 members, and here is what i came up w. It would help a few things we seam to have problems w/, namely attendance and DKP build up.

So here goes:

I figure we could eazyly do MC if we took a few alts (say 1 of each class or something like that) in our RG1 MC raids. They would then get DKP/Attendance on the main like they normaly would. The DKP for the items they get would also be deducted from the main. Now i know there are some drawbacks to this direct system, so i propose the following to be added: They can only bid on an item if it otherwise gets disenchanted, as in if a RG1 main wants it they get it. Also id propose a sign up system to see what alts we can get in (as in if all warriors want to play thier alts you can ask them to be on thier mains for boss X, or just not admit them all)

So feel free to discuss

[Padding]

I have no bigger thoughts on this since i dont have an ALT, other than i dont want to screw up the raid because they dont have the equipment for the instance. I've seen that happen too many times in the 20-man instances

[TeaLeaf]

I do not support the idea of any Alts in RG1 at all.

RG1 does not need MC to be interesting, they just need to clear it.  IF it is boring then drop MC from the rotation and do 2 x BWL and 1 x AQ40 instead, that'll be far more interesting.

Apart from that, your suggestion is only interesting for those with L60 attuned alts - so I (and others like me without L60 alts) would still find it boring.

Currently RG1 cannot spare any mains to allow alts to raid - we have 'insufficient' and I don't want to swap that for 'insufficient and under-specced'.

We have 40 people in RG2 who would love a spot in the RG1 raid and a system exists whereby those 'done with MC'can go help those in RG2 get 'done with MC'.  The interest is in helping RG2 achieve the right level of performance, not loot for the alt.  

I would not like to see any alts encouraged into RG1 MC runs, it gives entirely the wrong message to RG2 and will give them a sense of being devalued to less than the status of an RG1 alt.

As for the loot itself, swapping RG2 members for RG1 gets more loot distributed and helps RG2. Personally I do not think we need to worry about DEing loot, if nobody wants it then it adds to the nexus crystal bank for others ot use.

Alts shoud continue to participate in RG1 only at the request of the officers on a class need basis.

TL.

[Bastet]

well if we can do it w/ 30 we should be able to do it w/ 35 of which 5 are alts so to say

edit

Apart from that, your suggestion is only interesting for those with L60 attuned alts - so I (and others like me without L60 alts) would still find it boring

This is solvable in about a day of 2, once the alt hits level 60 that is

As for the loot itself, swapping RG2 members for RG1 gets more loot distributed and helps RG2.

We had this system about for a few weeks now, and it doesnt seam to get too much attention.

RG1 does not need MC to be interesting, they just need to clear it. IF it is boring then drop MC from the rotation and do 2 x BWL and 1 x AQ40 instead, that'll be far more interesting.

Now ill be all for this too, but there will be a few angry druids if we do this. (right vargen )

Currently RG1 cannot spare any mains to allow alts to raid - we have 'insufficient' and I don't want to swap that for 'insufficient and under-specced'.

Tbh id rather have under geared/speced players then them not coming cause its MC, allthough your right overall attendance seams to be slacking a lot lately......

[TeaLeaf]

I think with attendance low the last thing we can look to is getting alts to join RG1.  We need well-specced mains, not low attendance and low-spec.

Not sure about your second point as to what was meant.

You are right about the system - but then we have not exactly gone out of our way to promote it.  It is also a problem that Monday is a ZG/AQ raid, so anyone swapping out of RG1 will see the loss of a ZG/AQ raid.  I think if we promote the idea more often and speed up RG2 to clear MC in one night then we would see a greater take up.  I will post on the forums accordingly and ask for those interested to post.

Under-specced players are preferred to none at all, but we are starting with none at all, so there is no surplus from which we can comfortably swap in an alt.  Even if there were, then I would prefer an under-specced main from RG2 as this will benefit the Guild more than kitting up someone's alt.

TL.

[Bastet]

Well i wouldnt mind that either, but then we have to actualy start using that system, cause atm i think last time we had umbra and fury going down, and i am not at all sure we even had anyone coming back up to take thier place, and we ended up DEing most of the loot we could have given out to RG2 members.

If we get 8 RG2 i wont have a problem neither.

This topic is just me thinking out loud about some stuff i been thinking about for a while if its decided its not viable at this time, thats cool w/ me

[Padding]

In similar terms with this post and attendance issues, i think we should revise our raid days and/or our instance days

Currently the system is this:

Thursday MC
Sunday BWL
Tuesday BWL

+ Onyxia somewhere

Is that really the best way to go these days? If BWL is our main priority it should be thursday and MC could be "if we have the time in that week". Personally i dont want to "downgrade" MC, but i think we should put our best effort to where we want it. Beating Nefarian is gonna take time and effort, and personally i would rather spend the whole week in BWL, than rather having "to do" the MC clear. Lots of the officers have ALT's and if we maybe could move RG2 MC to another day (wednesday?) then the attendance for them could be more succesful also?

[TeaLeaf]

I'm not sure the days of the week make any difference.  Attendance is low across the board at the moment, so changing the day of the raid is not necessarily going to make any difference in my opinion.  

RG2 is pretty much full now, so there is not a huge need for alts in RG2, so a new day again would not make much difference - it may even cause some attendance probl;ems for those RG2 members currently happy with and recruited for Thursday/Monday raids - we won't know until we ask them.

TL.

[Padding]

Wasnt ONLY for the sake of attendance, but also to put our focus where we want to succed. If we want to take up a 4th raid day or actually just separate RG1+RG2 raids, it should be wednesday

[TeaLeaf]

If we separate then we get less swapping potential, that was why they (RG1 & RG2) are raiding MC on the same day.

Personally I don't try any harder on Thursday than I do on Sunday or Tuesday or would on Wednesday, so it makes no difference to our focus as far as I can see and changing days would only restrict us more.

TL.

[Padding]

Look at it this way:

Starting BWL thursday, will potientially give us 3 days in BWL in a week, but starting sunday gives us 2. As much as i love MC, i really wanna give my complete attention to BWL, since thats where the fun is. As officers we have the responsobility to move the guild in the direction we feel it should go, and i think we are kinda stuck at the moment, doing the same and the same over and over. We should try some new things, like move the raid days, come up with new ideas etc.

We need to try some of these things practically, as it only shows hows people react to these things there. Some of our best ideas turned out to be bad in practic, but some of the bad ones turned out brilliantly.

That brings me to a draft of something i've considered lately but most times you didnt think its a good idea.

Seeing that most people from RG1 are not that interested in MC/Onyxia lately we should consider putting the 2 raids together making RG2 a priority in the raids since they need the equipment more than us

So a weekly schedule could look like this:

Wednesday/Thursday RG1+RG2 - Onyxia/MC
Sunday RG1 - BWL
Tuesday RG1 - BWL

Most RG1'ers has all they need from MC, so lets take the bold step and put the raids together. Concerning DKP we need to talk about that since a lot of people are "just" there to score DKP so they can PWN their nearest opponent

Think about it before making hasty replies, we need innovation!

[Bastet]

attendance is dropping w/ a turn out of about 60-70 out of 100-120, but that doesnt mean that we can join the raids, RG2 is pritty much full lately. and there are still quite a few RG1 members that need thier tier 2 leg plates from ragnaros (which is part of the problem, ragnaros loot is good for RG1, but it takes (too) long to get there). So i dont see how making 1 raid out of 2 groups would work w/o some massive overflow.

Now as much as id like more time in BWL i think atm it isnt too good to spend a couple nites on nef since there is still a lot of gear to get up. Fe. from rogues i got a good kit, but several other still use an (incomplete) tier 1 set.

edit and BWL progress will be slow if we get in new guardian members because we lose a wealth of experiance and gear tbh. it will take some time for them to get several tier 2 epics.

[TeaLeaf]

I am not convinced that most people in RG1 are done with MC - otherwise I would be calling for it to be dropped to RG2 only.  So for the moment I think we stick with both RG1 and RG2 doing MC.

I am also not convinced that we need to spend 3 days wiping on Nefarian unless we really want to see morale and attendance drop further.  In any case, I think that we still have some way to go to aquire the gear we need to regularly take down Nefarian.  We're also far from in agreement on tactics for that fight, a point which at the moment is low priority as we do nto even get that far with current attendance.

I suspect a part of the reluctance from RG1 members to drop to RG2 on an MC night is the fact that they lose their Monday night too as well as access to a ZG/AQ raid.

The solution as I see it is very simple - at least is would be when attendance comes back up following this slack period:

Make sure RG2 clear MC in one night.  
Enforce swaps to ensure sufficient strength in both raids to complete the clearance.

For RG2 (and therefore for RG1 as well) we might also swap Onyxia to the end of Molten Core.  RG1 can do it if they clear quickly enough, RG2 get to do it Monday or after Ragnaros.

TL.

[Ragnarh]

Exsam season , holliday season why do we allways get theses discussions round them?

PS : start putting loads of alts in the raid and I'l go play mine.

[Bastet]

i am not saying we need to put masses of alts in, but i am saying we might be able to get a few in w/o it affecting the raid. like maybe 1-3?