Loot priority

[Keltor]

Yeh he has windfury but so does everyone else in the raid, not just him. He also says "the whole raid is pretty buffed up" so everyone is equally buffed. But he stills deal more than twice the damage than the person coming in 2nd. Why? Cause of the weap.

[Vargen]

Originally posted by Dajo@Jun 23 2006, 10:33 AM
What I would say:
Wristguards of Stability - Would benefit a Warrior better, unsure about this tho

[post=133114]Quoted post[/post]

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They are leather  

On the subject though; It is true that the hybrids can never reach the amoubt of DPS as the classes they are "imitating", but I still think that should not exclude them from being able to play that aspect of their character if not in raids then outside raids.

[Marduk]

Before someone flames me I am purely thinking of getting maximum use out of an item to benefit the group as a whole. Just because you can use it, doesnt mean you should use it. That is not to say if no one wants an item then other classes cant bid/get etc.

The maximum use, but what is the maximum use
for instance a hunter got crown of destruction last night, but he already had the tier 2 helm as well
now from a talk with soulbringer i heard the crown might be better for pvp
but for the paladins who whisperd it would have gotten the same destination

so what is the most use, a hunter or a pally using it in PVP
i say the pally would make a bigger jump between items cos it sure as hell is better then a healing helm

or let me put it this way, what is better for the general good of the raid getting the warriors or hunters a 2nd uber item or perhaps a backup, or having paladins perhaps leaving the guild or slacking on attendance / healing / cleansing cos they never get anything cool ( yes for some of us it has come this far )

[Shadowsong]

I haven't raided much with you guys (yesterday first time), but have done a couple of runs on horde side, and read certain things on Thott/Alla or forums about loot rules.

Some guilds use pure DKP, you got the DKP you get the item even if it's pretty much useless for your class (hunter with ToEP or TF for example).
That system ensures you get unhappy players in your guild and might cause lots of flames that will harm the guilds reputation (look at Hunter with TF in Knights of Aszune topic).

Most people use their mind a bit what class would benefit the most of the item, or even better, would benefit the raid the most.
A paladin can dps, but, even a warrior in blue/green gear with non-epic weapons can outdamage a pally. Giving a paladin an OEB for example his dps increases, but it quite minor, when an OEB given to a warrior (fury/arms) it will increase damage a lot.

However, how much I hate to see a good 2H (sword/axe) go to a pally, they do have some right for it. I mean, they got the DKP, did the runs and it can be used well for solo/pvp purposes.
Tank warriors can use the same weapon (let's take OEB for example) but their damage won't get near to that of a furry/arms warrior, so should a tank get less priority to an OEB just because it doesn't benefit the raid that much?

Sulfuron hammer, is a tricky one. Mace spec sucks for warriors, the DPS is nice but not uber great for a warrior (I think). A warrior will still outdamage a pally with it, but it's a hell of a good weapon for pally too. Maybe use the "dumb dkp" way for a weapon like that...I even think warriors will pass on the Eye drop because maces aren't realy uber.

[sitha]

Imo have class priorities for legendary items, for the rest use common sense. This is not thottbot.

Most classes can have alternative roles in a raid and should be able to get gear for filling that role from raids if they want. Pallies want big swords, priest want shadow dmg gear, druids want feral stuff etc.

And last but not least, not everything is about raiding. Some people actually want to be able to function outside the raid. Be it for grinding, pvp or whatever.

[Bob]

Originally posted by sitha@Jun 23 2006, 05:14 PM
Most classes can have alternative roles in a raid and should be able to get gear for filling that role from raids if they want. Pallies want big swords, priest want shadow dmg gear, druids want feral stuff etc.

[post=133176]Quoted post[/post]

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I just want to continue a bit on this issue.

It has been said in some posts earlier in this thread that druids are expected to heal and paladins are expected to heal/clense in raids, and thus shouldn't get any priority over rogues/warriors when it comes to items that doesn't support that spesific role whatsoever.  I will now talk with druids as example, since that is what I know the most about, but I guess much of the same also goes for paladins.

I'm a full out resto druid myself (5/0/46), and that I'm very happy about.  Because of that I have never requested any loot that could be good for a feral druid that also a rogue would benefit greatly fromm (a bit low on DKP, so I need to save that for the gear I really need ).  However, there are other druids that also like to go feral (and have a very good feral build as well), and I can also picture a few situations where I have to go feral myself.

We actually had a pretty good example of this yesterday in MC: when the raid first started we only had two warriors, which meant that Vargen, Razie and myself had to go feral and tank those packs of dogs around Lucifron and Magmadar.  Of course this spesific tanking job isn't particular hard, but that's not the point either.  There was also another incident where I had to rush in and off-tank a giant due to a dead warrior and Vargen down as well.
My point here is that even though a druid's main role in a raid is healing, there can occur situations where you must enter another role (and this I guess goes for paladins as well), and for those situations it really helps if you have some gear to "back up" that role.


To wrap it up, I'd like to repeat what I stated in my first post: let's have as few loot restrictions as possible.  Legendary items could get some priority to them (and perhaps also a very few epics that are highly directed at a specific class (with a specific build)), but other than that: leave it mostly up to each member's common cense and DKP

[Marduk]

Perhaps we could just skip the whole discussion and jump to the conclusion
based on a very short chat with vargen, the paladin officer representing the class and a few replies here

we could just jump all the way true the discussion and get to

Paladins who want to do damage , Your ***** big time

[Bob]

Originally posted by Marduk@Jun 23 2006, 05:46 PM
Perhaps we could just skip the whole discussion and jump to the conclusion
based on a very short chat with vargen, the paladin officer representing the class and a few replies here

we could just jump all the way true the discussion and get to

Paladins who want to do damage , Your ***** big time

[post=133189]Quoted post[/post]

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Aren't you jumping a bit too fast to conclusions here Marduk?  I see different replies that suggest that there are both people wanting loot priority, and also those that doesn't want it at all - and ofc some also in the middle (I even saw Vargen talking something in that direction)

And about your talk with Vargen and the officers (and this goes to the Officers, and not you Marduk):If the officers ask for a discussion around a topic such as this, I would expect them to join in on that discussion a bit more actively that we have seen here (only Vargen that has briefly posted) before they come to a conclusion.
(If you haven't reached a conclusion yet, just take away this last part, it's just what I understood from Marduk's post sorry)

[Gorion]

ThunderFury is the best Tank weapon in the game...

[Bastet]

Djezus ppl dont post all that stuff in 1 day, its too hard for me to keep track of all that, most of you have a job, get to work dang it

But seriously i think that some loot restrictions should apply, like for legendarys, and as for myselfs i wouldnt mind where an item goes but i think ppl should aim for the stuff they can use properly..... allthough this is a hard one, and for the officers double so.

Say last nite we had a hunter and 2 paladins whisper for the crown:
A) the hunter gets it and the paladins are pissed off cause they cant ever take dps gear (allthough personably id rather have plate on a paladin, like onslaught)
B) the paladin gets it and the hunter gets pissed off cause paladins cant do dmg anyway so why use such a good item.

with this there is no right way of doing it... both ways ppl get pissed off at the ML or eachother.

ps: Gorion, that TF is best for a tank we allready figured out ages ago, but thanks for reminding us again and again and again and did i say again allready. Chances of us giving that to a hunter/rogue/paladin is next to non id recon.

[Gorion]

well bastet.. lets sat that TF is my dream

bdw for those ppl who said that fury warrs might use it too, please note that its crap for them... Why? cos they need +crit, +hit gear with loads of agi/..

[Bastet]

According to blizzard for a rogue and a fury warrior the sword makes the highest dammage over a long fight, its just that its to goddang big and the stats are really no good at all for a rogue, heck thats before we even discuss the crafting fee (mats etc).

[StrontiumDog]

This maybe a bit cheesy, but if there is a bit of a dispute about which class wants a item..../roll.

At least its fair....

[lunares]

Originally posted by StrontiumDog@Jun 23 2006, 05:50 PM
This maybe a bit cheesy, but if there is a bit of a dispute about which class wants a item..../roll.

At least its fair....

[post=133210]Quoted post[/post]

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TBH the rolling system is a lot but not fair. Take ZG for example. Menedil hasnt got the hakkar heart thingy yet but he has been on a lot of raids so i would not call a rolling system fair.

Lunares

[StrontiumDog]

I am talking fair as in eveyone who rolls has an equal chance of winning, which in essence means that it is fair.

Just because you dont win an item by rolling does not mean that you did not have an even chance of winning it.