Early assist calls

[Sandrion]

Sometimes the I hear that the tanks are complaining about people that pull aggro of them, mainly because of early assist calls. So I took 'burst damage' Manny along to try and see how hard it would be to tank a mob if you get about zero aggro time before DPS starts.
 
The mobs we were using are the elite dragonkin in the burning steppes, because they have decent armor (which reduced my aggro generation ability a bit) and they hit hard enough, so rage won't be a problem. Outdoors this was the closest I could find to an MC mob :unsure: , sure there are stronger mobs around, but I can't heal myself while tanking; it was just about the initial damage part anyway.
 
We both had only druid buffs on and nothing else; nope no BoS for Manny either.
 
Here is the movie: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3714418800980696031&hl=nl
 
But I have to say that if Manny opened with a aimed + multi shot crit and I didn't have the immobilizing effect of feral charge on the mob I did lose it and needed to taunt it to get it back. Other then that it's impossible to get it of me :norty: . Also note that I can miss on my first attack (then I'm in trouble), warriors don't really have that problem with sunders, they just hammer the button again.
 
Warriors always get a couple of seconds before DPS starts, so how is it possible that they lose aggro, while I can easily hold it?
 
P.S.: KTM wasn't showing the correct amount of aggro btw. I had more then it was actually saying :thumbsdown: .

[Knabbel]

After seeing the movie I now know what you mean...
I can't tell you why you maintained agro above a hunter.... From the mob's point of view is it that the person with highest life threat will get his agro. But these dragons don't have the same bunch of abilities as mob bosses. Try it on one of the drakes that wander around there. I would love to see some comments on this thread as I'm curious about the answers of some warriors.
 
I know we use a dr00d in bear form when we are ganking Hexxer in ZG...
 
 
Hope to see some answers.....
 
Is it possible that the hunters used low lvl arrows? Just a question.

[Sandrion]

Nope, he used the AV ones http://www.thottbot.com/?i=40511.
 
And we use druids on Hexxer, because we can't be polymorphed. If the tanks gets pollied he loses all his threat and won't be able to get it aggro back.
 
Druid tanks have some advantages (like the one state above), but generaly speaking it is better to use warriors as tanks.
 
And drakes are not a problem either btw :happy: , the only downside they have is that they resist the immobilizing effect of feral charge.

[Bastet]

And we use druids on Hexxer, because we can't be polymorphed. If the tanks gets pollied he loses all his threat and won't be able to get it aggro back.

Thats not true, you lose agro only for the duration of the poly, but thats enough time for hexxer to run over and gank a healer if there high on the agro list.
 
Also the problem in MC is not that to little agro time its given, its the dps is sometimes going before the tank even reaches the mob, also in BS you dont need to worry about placement, when placeing your likely running away, or backpaddling, meaning your abilitys will be out of range 75% off time (mob runs faster, reaches you, stops to hit, and then runs for you again). While moving a tank is not able to make the same ammount of argo then after in possition. And if you get a bit unlucky with block/parry/dodge you dont have enough rage to do much.
 
Also feral charge gives you a few hits while its immobile, that dont work in MC.
 
DPS should use as rule of thumb the second sunder up on target.
 
And remember that while your dmg increases a lot over time when gear builds, warriors dont make more threath. They can only get so many abilitys off in a time frame, and most of the mobs allready make warriors have rage to spare.

[Nefrion]

...
And remember that while your dmg increases a lot over time when gear builds, warriors dont make more threath. They can only get so many abilitys off in a time frame, and most of the mobs allready make warriors have rage to spare.

Not true. Warriors with greater weapons get more agro and 8pcs of Might helps on the agro too.

From my PoV i think the reason why warriors loose agro is because of rogues. I have 110 energy now which means i can backstab 2 times in about 2 seconds. With two crits that is 2000+ dmg and then there is the normal hits/crits between.

[jantore]

Not true. Warriors with greater weapons get more agro and 8pcs of Might helps on the agro too.
 
From my PoV i think the reason why warriors loose agro is because of rogues. I have 110 energy now which means i can backstab 2 times in about 2 seconds. With two crits that is 2000+ dmg and then there is the normal hits/crits between.

Hmm i don't agree with u. I never see a rouge getting agro. But warlocks and mages do tend to get it alot. Oh and then we are dead since no one wants to heal us . We might get lucky and survive getting agro in MC but no chance in hell in BWL.
 
A few hunters also tend to get agro if they forget to FD. But thats about it.

[Sandrion]

About the Hexxer bit, you're right it's just for the duration of the effect, I may have misphrased that a bit. (the pollied tank doesn't get wiped of the aggro list).
 
It is also true that druids generate more aggro, are more rage efficient and that their threat scales with gear. That of a warrior doesn't (except for the might set bonus); at least not much since only weapon damage increases which causes only little treath (130% times weapon damage, 145% with talents).
 
And about the feral charge, I don't use it on the 3th mob. Once I get one maul hit I've got aggro and am not letting go :taz: .
 
In case the DPS starts before the tanks hits the target, it's understandable he loses it of course.

[Keltor]

try holding aggro while im beating on the dragon.

[Mazii]

Feint perhaps?

[Sandrion]

try holding aggro while im beating on the dragon.

Sure I'm up for that, let me know when you got time to try it out.

[Neff]

Hmm i don't agree with u. I never see a rouge getting agro. But warlocks and mages do tend to get it alot. Oh and then we are dead since no one wants to heal us . We might get lucky and survive getting agro in MC but no chance in hell in BWL.

l2not overagro : ) Most agro doesnt mean the most damage done. You can do alot of dmg without actually overagroing.

[Gorion]

1 comment:

If you think tanking is easy stuff, Do it yourself!

end of comment

now regarding the might 8piece set, the might stats suck get over it
bigger dam weapons? the faster the weapon is the better, so thats not an option. (why faster is better? try spamming ms/sunder with a slow weapon then try spamming ms/sunder with a fast weapon)(oh and bdw, the 2nd row fury talent, unbridled rage(or how the heck its written), has a chance of adding 1 rage per hit, so- the faster=more hits=more rage)

ultimate benefits-fast(but low dmg weaps)= chance or rage per hit, better hs/sunder spamming, and since we dont always hit.. well faster also helps

slow:chance on rage per hit(IF you hit), spamming sunder/hs. (youre joking really?)

how tanks build rage: We get hit, and when we block(if you have shield spec), we dont make rage via hitting(epect the 1 rage via talent)

Disclaimer: If you overaggro me too many times and annoy the heck out of me, i WILL let you die  when you aggro again. ille get my aggro back easily after youre dead  (does not apply to healers)

[Sandrion]

What you say is true Gorion. I'm not blaming the tanks or anything, I'm just trying to find out what the problem is really.
 
I'd yes I would like to tank, but I doubt they will let me because I'm a druid and we already have enough tanks :sad: .

[Bastet]

Not true. Warriors with greater weapons get more agro and 8pcs of Might helps on the agro too.
 
From my PoV i think the reason why warriors loose agro is because of rogues. I have 110 energy now which means i can backstab 2 times in about 2 seconds. With two crits that is 2000+ dmg and then there is the normal hits/crits between.

Warriors w/ harder hitting weapons make more rage, but if a mob hits sokhar for 3,500 = full rage bar, i cant spend it as fast as it comes in, hence i cant make more threath then allready making. Also 8/8 might warriors are extreemly rare, wrath is better stats wise.
 

It is also true that druids generate more aggro, are more rage efficient and that their threat scales with gear. That of a warrior doesn't (except for the might set bonus); at least not much since only weapon damage increases which causes only little treath (130% times weapon damage, 145% with talents).

Druids dont generate more agro. They are slower to build up, but cant be polied. And white weapon dmg still accounts for half a warriors threath (49.6% on sokhar over a full ZG clear)
 
Also the reason you dont see many rogues overagroing is how thier dmg works, warriors/rogues (battle/zerker) make 0.8 threath per dmg, mages/locks make more, and get a bigger bonus for big crits.

[JanuZ]

Bastet you are contradicting yourself in the same post. First you say that warriors can't make more threat then they are already making when they get an weapon upgrade and then you say that the white damage creates 50% of your threat. I am guessing that a better weapon increases your white damage and such the threat you generate also.

That you can't use your rage up just means that you have an endless amount of damage capability while a rogue, hunter and casters will have a limited amount of damage income. You get to spam Heroic Strike+other abilities unhinderd by the rage requirements now just think how it would be if your rogue would be allowed to spam SS or backstab unhinderd.