SOG One Loot

[TeaLeaf]

Just a quick reminder about loot as the loot rules were incorrectly applied to tonight's raid.  

The rules as announced are:

SOG One - One Raid for One Guild:
The Field Marshalls are pleased to announce their plans for Molten Core raiding.

• The Guild will operate weekly raids to Molten Core each Wednesday evening, invites as usual at 19.15.
• The MC raids will be open to both mains and alts and to the whole Guild irrespective of membership type.
• The MC raids will be operated by the Commanders.
• MC raid places will be booked via a booking system like the current 20s booking system.
• Commanders will approve an appropriate class balance and spread of quality prior to each raid to give the raid a reasonable chance of success, as well as rotating those in each class to give everyone a chance to attend.  
• The run would not be open to RG2 mains in a week in which MC was on the RG2 schedule. Commanders will not approve RG2 mains to raid in such weeks, although alts are of course eligible.
• A rep-based system similar to ZG is to be used, although set at a much lower level.  This will reward attendance with a better opportunity to get Epic loot.  This would not use or earn DKP, thus having zero impact on the current DKP standings.  Setting the required rep levels at Friendly for Mains and Honoured for Alts should mean it is not too difficult to achieve for any character as reputation is gained so quickly in MC.  
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• Legendary items - these will be prioritised to RG1 & RG2 mains and would have the attendant DKP cost where a main took the item as in these cases the Guild would be likely to support the cost of materials etc. For set items (like Bindings) priority goes to those who already hold one of the set items.  Where a legendary item goes to a non-RG1/2 main then there would be no DKP cost and Guild Bank would not subiside the legendary item being crafted.
• All non-epic drops go to Guild Bank to help cashflow.  All BOE epics where nobody Need rolls will also go to Guild Bank.
• All BOP recipes/patterns are given to a Field Marshall first, then a Marshall, then a Commander as first choice.  Where none are present or none need the recipe it would be an open roll to those in the raid.

We hope these announcements meet your general approval.  They allow Molten Core to continue to be a regular part of the SOG raiding scene for both RG1 & RG2 mains.  Importantly it also allows access to Molten Core, for the first time, to members not currently part of RG1 or RG2 and it also allows Alts to enter MC and gain access to MC and the Tier 1 epic loot therein.

The Field Marshalls wanted ALL members (including Alts) to have access to loot, so the loot system approved had to be simple and give realistic chances of getting loot to ALL members.  We believe that the above system will be simple to administer and fair to all members.

We are now setting up the necessary support systems to allow the raids to start and an announcement regarding the appointment new Commanders run both the MC and ZG & AQ20 raids will be made very shortly.  In the mean time we very much hope that this announcement is greeted with your unanimous approval.

The bit in bold is important.  It is by design that we set a flat threshold rep like we use in ZG.  It is mean to allow a lowly alt after only 3 or 5 runs to earn the right to epic loot on a levle footing with an Exhalted Main.  A non-raid main would be elgible after only 1-2 runs.  So please do not apply a 'highest rep' loot system as it is contrary to what the Field Marshalls both approved and intended for the loot system.  By all means think about and discuss potential changes or improvements, but they do need FM approval before being implemented as they may be contrary to other aims and objectives set by the FMs for the Guild as a whole.

Thank you.

TL.

[Knabbel]

We will have to get back on this one... sort thing out. As yesterday I was actually surprised by the MC run, but wanted to helpout on their first time. Althought there was one member that said something about the loot rule we all agreed on the rule of yesterday and adjusted when needed. As this seems to be the case we should get on TS and talk about this.
 
Things need to be cleared out before the raid starts. This way we all can say the same thing and that will make a solid impression.
 
After a couple of runs I would like to give a try on out-door bosses as well, as I faced only one yet and some do drop real nice gear (also NR gear). But that's for later.
 
D.

[TeaLeaf]

There's really nothing that needs doing - the rule was set by the FMs and is the one that will be used.  If you have suggestions for changes then please submit them but this does not stop you correctly applying the current rule.

As an aside I was whispered by a member about 2 mins ago who questioned the loot rules used last night.  I told him it would be correctly applied next time.

All in all though a good raid.  A wee bit faster and we'll be at Ragnaros.

Looking forward to seeing some ZG & AQ20 runs on the booking website.

TL.

[Claw]

ohh well i thougth that wee should do MC done on firday ^^
well annyways i can start up a zg run on friday

[TeaLeaf]

I'd stick with one MC run per week and just increase the speed to get the job done - and get the 20s running agian quickly.  People want them badly.

TL.

[Claw]

I'd stick with one MC run per week and just increase the speed to get the job done - and get the 20s running agian quickly.  People want them badly.

TL.

affermative, il start a zg run on friday

EDIT:
its gonna be an AQ20 run due 2 meh forget to change to ZG *doh*

[Bastet]

might be worth using the official announcement forum to announce the restart of 20 man raid instances. So that ppl know to once agian sign up and look for sign ups on the site.

[Knabbel]

But only do so when you are known with the loot rules, because when a loot goes wrong the person in question will read all about the loot rules.
 
I will not be there friday, celebrating my brothers birthday...
 
And like Bastet says make an official announcment but do let the rest of the commanders know this infront.
 
D.

[Yrthal]

I would like to discuss the lootrules with the other commanders and FM's if possible.
 
My opinion about the way we did it the way we did yesterday was good.
Meny RG2 members lack of gear and think this way is great because then they also got a chance to get some upgrades and still progress in BWL.
I know its not the meaning to gear up RG2 on UNOFICCIAL runs, but you can farm rep in Silithus and some RG2 also lack of rep wich concludes that alts / soldiers still can get equaly amount of gear as mains can. And some that allready got most of their gear will ofcourse pass on to the others but aswell keep joining due to get a "legendary" or maby some weapon they allways wanted but had to pass to others due to DKP. At the time your main "doesent" need more gear you will sign up with an alt wich has = 0 rep and then they are the last in line to get gear and it all works in a circular way.
 
 
But this is just a way to look at it from another perspective!

[TeaLeaf]

My opinion about the way we did it the way we did yesterday was good.

That may be, but it was not what was agreed and announced by the FMs and therefore is not the way you will do the next one.  Sorry to be so pedantic and a PITA here, but we had a specific purpose here when we announced the loot rules and the reaosns behind this were debated at some length to give benefit to the whole Guild.  Believe it or not it was not solely to gear up RG2 members!

The system announced and which should be in use deliberately put members on an equal footing after only a few runs by setting a threshold reputation level, just like the one that works so well in ZG.  If you have attained the threshold rep level then you have a valid roll for that item, period.  It is not a question of who has the 'highest rep' otherwise the system you suggest means that an Alt or Soldier or Defender could spend a lot of time in MC only to see the drop they had been waiting for go to an Exhalted RG1 member on his first run in the SOG One raid because he was already Exhalted and you were only Revered.  We do NOT want that to happen so the threshold is a threshold - not a who can jump highest.  The threshold is set low deliberately so that very quickly ALL get a chance to get loot with equal chances whatever their membership type within SOG.

I'm really not trying to stifle the Commander role here, but you have to appreciate that you are looking at it from the Commander POV whereas we are looking at this from a whole Guild POV and in making our decision we're did so in possession of more information than is available to you.  Without *all* that information it may be difficult for you to understand the why of the current loot rules, but it is the decision reached by the FMs and the one announced to the members.  Ergo it is the way it should be delivered for the time being.

The FMs set the parameters under which the SOG One raids are to be run, just as they have approved loot systems for AQ20 and ZG in the past.  The Commanders were appointed to run those raids under those parameters, not to change them without discussion.

TL.

[Bastet]

Again TL is right, use what is announced, and dont go arround changing it w/o consulting with field marshals. If you want to fine, make a discussion topic first.
 
The idea of these runs is that every1 has equal chance of gearing up. Be it alts/soldiers that never been in MC or vets that need 1 more item.
 
Next time use the rules as announced, also an apology for not using the announced system is in order. I dont know where this highest rep thing came from, but it has to go back there.

[Bastet]

Raid rules topic in raiding forum now has both SOG - One and SOG - 20 man current raid rules.

[Yrthal]

Well fair is fair there is appernetly nothing to discuss.

The meaning of the post was maby to come with some input and look things over. One way or another all have equal chance what so ever. anyways doesent matter.

[Knabbel]

What TL mend was that you have to be honoured for alts and revered for mains to roll for an item. This way more people will have the chance of getting the item. I'm revered and I roll 56 now an alt comes along and rols 60 with rep lvl honoured, he gets the roll..... this is because it is an unofficial raid, the officials are sorted out by the dkp.
 
I must agree that these things must be handeled in the same way as we used to do. I would be clad to at least have a chance of getting an item then to pass it on to RG1 or RG2 members (as I'm only 251 rep from exalted).
 
It's confusing for people attending raids and see different loot rules applied.
 
If you feel the need to change things, then this must be discussed together with the FM's.
 
D.

[Bastet]

Well the problem becomes at some point if you use rep that once you hit a certain rep level you stop gaining rep from trash, it took me a half year or so of solid raiding MC 1/2/3 times a week to get to exhalted. Which would mean that any RG1 has priority for at least another half year on anything they want.
 
So to avoid soldier still beeing left with scraps it was decided in to set it at this. So that soldiers, after a few runs get a honest chance at what they want.