Battle Plan part 3: To TBC-Raids and beyond!

[Bastet]

After a few lengthy discussions between the Field Marshals we have come to the following draft ideas for raiding in TBC:

Raid groups will run at a 3 day schedule, using the days SOG used before: Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday. There will be around 4 members per class per group, and an attendance requirement of around 75%. Should this requirement not be met then more people will be recruited such that the raid is always full. Members that are unable to raid must take action to let an officer know they're not coming.

For the rebuilding of the raid groups there will be a poll opened for all members with the options: I am a and I want to raid!

Note that the Field Marshals want everyone to raid, but due to instance size restrictions might not be able to fit everyone in. This rebuild will also provide the opportunity for members to switch their main to another class should you want.

Lastly a lot of debate and speculation on the DKP system has been seen from the member ranks. In order to provide some clarity the following is a short recap of the DKP system:

If a new DKP system is needed the old system will be used to provide a small carry over DKP (going into TBC the old system is the BWL/MC DKP site). This bonus will consist of sorting the classes from highest to lowest earned dkp, and awarding 10 dkp to highest down 1 for lowest.

Field Marshals intend to use a DKP system per raid tier. A raid tier is all instances yielding one tier of armor.

The DKP system will be remade to provide a higher bonus for progress nights. Controlled (i.e. farm status) fights will therefore yield far less DKP than they have over the last year.

[Lucian]

Any word on numbers? I'm thinking ahead, and I'd be pretty annoyed if Lucian was passed over in favour of another hunter, and then missed a slot in a raid.

[Bob]

Sounds like a good draft :thumbup:


There is one issue that is not addressed that I really think we should take into consideration, and that is new members:

It is my opinion, which I also have discussed with some others (and it has also been pointed out by quite a few of those that have left in the recent time), that one of the reasons we have fallen apart the way we have seen the last month, is that SOG grew way too big - there were way too many new members joining, and it were difficult to maintain the old tight bonds that have been between the members (and also to include the new members in this).

I hope nobody feel hurt in any way by this, and if so I deeply apologize for that. It is not meant as something targeted to specific members in any way, it is just a general observation I have made.

We have many members left, and I assume also many that want to raid, so we shouldn't have any problems filling up one (probably two) raid group(s). Therefor I think we should freeze the admission of new members (close friends joining is another case, as usual) for a while, meaning, when a raid group (or more) are assembled, we should give it a decent amount of time to settle.

When we so choose to open up for new members again, I think we should change the application process. My main idea here is that it is not those who want to join that should submit an application, but they should need to get an existing (none-initiate) member to submit an application on their behalf. There are two main thoughts I have which I think this solution will address:

Firstly, we have in certain periods been over-flooded with applications. Some of them are the "random noob" that almost by pure luck ended up on our forum, others are "that-guy-that-has-already-submitted-10-applications", and you also have those applicants that actually are of interest for the guild (both as raiding- and none-raiding member). This vast amount of applications is for one quite tiresome to read, so I have very often found myself skipping that part of the forum (and I guess I'm not the only one, so what is than the use of such a system if almost none reads it anyhow), and I would also guess it leads to quite a lot of extra work for the Officers.

Secondly, I don't think the "sponsor system" works at all. The thought behind a sponsor, is that it should be somebody that really knows (doesn't need to be in RL) the applicant, so that we can have at least some kind of guarantee that it is a half decent person. Many that apply do it without a sponsor (and some don't even know anyone in the guild), and I would think that it's not an unreasonable guess to say that many of those that are sponsors in an application don't really know the applicant that well (e.g. someone you've been in a dungeon with once or twice, and he/she asked you to sponsor, and you thought "what the heck, he/she could heal/tank/DPS good enough).

My main point is, that you should really know the person you are sponsoring, and by doing it this way you actually have to think a bit about the person you're sponsoring. If you can't be bothered to write an application (or in our case, fill out a simple form) for a friend, you don't know the person good enough, or you don't care enough for him/here.


I think that SOG should be a guild where the members know and care about each other. You should of course not necessarily know everyone, but it should be in such a way that when new members join the guild, you can think "I've never seen that guy before, but I know that he is a close friend of Bastet (either in-game, RL or both), so I trust Bastet when he says it is an all right chap". That way I think we can maintain a close bond between our members.

So let us continue to make Silver Oak Guardians the best guild also in TBC, the same way as we have been before the expansion :clap:

best regards
Bob

Edit: this ended up quite much longer than I thought in advance, but I spent some time writing it, so I hope at least some read it and can supply some good comments to it :blush:

[Armitage]

Could we have a raid group that starts at 8pm server time, for people in the UK with jobs and a family?

[DonnieKingo]

Could we have a raid group that starts at 8pm server time, for people in the UK with jobs and a family?

Oh yes PLZ - it would make my life a lot easier too

[sheepy]

Im currently leveling my warrior as my main and will intend to riad on my warrior for at least quite a long time, I may in the future want to change to a diffrent one, will this be an option? (ps it would probably b my mage, but there is also a chance that it could b my shammy that i am leveling occasionally

[Sheperdbook]

Could we have a raid group that starts at 8pm server time, for people in the UK with jobs and a family?

Seconded! :thumbup:

Still don't want to raid on Tuesdays though which might be a long term issue for myself.

[Niel]

Could we have a raid group that starts at 8pm server time, for people in the UK with jobs and a family?

I'd vote for that also !!

[Sandrion]

I totally agree with you Bob, I've been thinking the same thing.
 
 
As for the draft, sounds good.
 
Personally I can not commit to raiding in the evening anymore, although I'd still like too. I don't know if anyone else has the 'problem', but wouldn't it be a nice idea to do one run a week in the weekends during daytime or something? I don't know if there is interrest for something like that, it's just a thought. Maybe we can organize 10 man runs on Saterday and Sunday in addition to the 'evening runs' for example, it shouldn't be to hard to get a group of that size together :g: .
 
Having (at least) two raidgroups that start at different times (GMT and GMT+1) also sounds like a plan. Then we won't have any RG1 > RG2 problems either, since they're equal.

[Lexander]

Could we have a raid group that starts at 8pm server time, for people in the UK with jobs and a family?

That is good for people in GMT +0 but exemple I'm at +2 zone, so start time would be 21.00 and if you think that raids take about 4-5 hours it is 01-02 when it stops. And when getting up in 6.45 that leaves only about 5h to sleep. So I would like to keep the old raid times Or like someone said, different raid groups for different time zones :roflmao:

[Bastet]

Im currently leveling my warrior as my main and will intend to riad on my warrior for at least quite a long time, I may in the future want to change to a diffrent one, will this be an option? (ps it would probably b my mage, but there is also a chance that it could b my shammy that i am leveling occasionally

Has been done, but its less likely. Also other feedback will be collected and revieuwed by Field Marshals, though if possible try to be a bit shorter then bob was :narnar:
 
Raid group starting later would provide a problem for raid time, since raid end tends to be at 10 gmt/11 euro.

[ChimpBoy]

Wise words there Bob - I'd fully endorse that.  Maybe it'll stop the people who join for several months, leech all the epics they can, then leave us with little regret to join another guild.
 
I guess the next step is to compile a list of folks (and their classes) who want to raid (and can make the commitment).  If you want to switch to an alt as your main now is the time to do it with so much nice gear dropping in the expansion.

[Bob]

though if possible try to be a bit shorter then bob was :narnar:

Heeey, I'm thorough - that's a good quality :boxing:
But don't you have any opinions about it still?

Raid group starting later would provide a problem for raid time, since raid end tends to be at 10 gmt/11 euro.

Official raid times earlier was invites at 19:15 CET, and end no later than midnight.
I feel very much for those that live in GMT and might have to rush through dinner etc. to be in time for the raid, so I don't think it would hurt to postpone the raid - say invites at 19:45, raid starts 20:00 sharp.

On the other hand, I don't think it is any good just to push the raid back an hour (with people like Lex in mind that lives in a +2 zone, and also us that live in CET, cause ending at 1:00 is kinda late as well). The instances in TBC are now shorter than they have been earlier (don't know is this goes for the end-game lvl70 raid instances as well, that's just a guess), and with three raid days a week, it shouldn't be hard to progress with 4 effective hours each night (you just have to be hard with people, and stick to that everybody has to be at the instance entrance at 20:00).

[Lucian]

I vote for 8pm start, and 11pm finish.  I can live with that.
 
Would it also be possible to aim for a 2/3 attendance rate instead of 3/4?  Its slightly less and makes managing weekday evenings that little bit easier.

[Bastet]

this one was chosen cause of the smaller raid group sizes and thus ppl get to raid lots, more ppl means less raids all round.